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US election (merged threads)



alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
Taken from Guido Fawkes but sums up how I feel

The Guardian has a piece today stating that it's crucial that the left 'woos back white voters'.


Far, far too fvcking late me old chinas. I didn't want to play the identity politics game, you b*stards forced me to. You see, as a white, working class man (aka 'the enemy' to you) I don't feel very 'privileged' and I'm not feeling inclined to surrender what 'privilege' I have to all those other groups in society you think deserve more than me.


In the last decade slavery was legal in the British Empire, the 1830s, the average life expectancy of white, working class men in Lancashire was 29. 29 years of no vote, no health care, rudimentary education, poverty, exploitation, hunger and hard work. Things improved slowly, very slowly, but it still wasn't until after four years of world war that every white, working class man got a vote.


Since then we've had the Depression, another world war (one that involved actually fighting fascists, not claiming to be doing so when signing an online fvcking petition) and a political class that saw the destruction of our jobs, towns, traditions and identities as a price worth paying for the 'greater goods' of globalisation and multiculturalism.


And now I'm asked to vote for an ideology that views my son as part of the problem, the enemy, one of the privileged.


Get Fock ed. I want to see your leftist ideology crashing down in flames and I want my son to grow up free to realise his full potential and take his share of an inheritance his people worked, fought and sacrificed to provide him with.


I will bring him up not to be a racist or a bigot, to be fair, to be generous and to judge everyone on their own merits. But I will not bring him up to be ashamed of what he his, who he is and where he came from and I will not sacrifice one bit of his 'privilege' for your failed, divisive, fvcking agenda.
 




GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,402
Gloucester
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...eople-vote-for-donald-trump-us-voters-explain


I like the fact that all three branches are controlled by the same party, now we can get down to the business of straightening out our country, taking care of our people, our veterans, getting the economy moving again and repealing Obamacare.
All sounds good - '..................................taking care of our people, our veterans' - but just where does repealing Obamacare fit with taking care of people. Seriously, can someone explain? I would have thought that a health care scheme would be welcomed by the poor, disenfranchised and dis-satisfied groups that seem to have voted for DT.
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,857
Uffern
I would have thought that a health care scheme would be welcomed by the poor, disenfranchised and dis-satisfied groups that seem to have voted for DT.

The poor didn't vote for Trump: the lower income groups voted heavily for Clinton - she had an 11% lead over Trump among those with incomes under $50,000 ($55k is the median income in the US).
 


symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
It was interesting seeing Trump and Obama together yesterday and he seemed quite humbled by Obama’s presence. A smooth transition and open communication between them is a good thing, and who knows, Trump may even stick with Obama Care but change it to Trump Care.
 


JCL666

absurdism
Sep 23, 2011
2,190
All sounds good - '..................................taking care of our people, our veterans' - but just where does repealing Obamacare fit with taking care of people. Seriously, can someone explain? I would have thought that a health care scheme would be welcomed by the poor, disenfranchised and dis-satisfied groups that seem to have voted for DT.

Obamacare isn't a universal health care system like the NHS.

The wiki page is pretty good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

The act itself is ridiculously complex, but the upshot is that a lot of people who were already insured saw their premiums rise.

If you didn't have insurance you could be fined. If a company employs more than 50 people but doesn't provide healthcare they can be fined.

The approach to what you are entitled or have a right to is tricky in the USA. A common reply to "right to healthcare" is that a person does not have a right to the results of someone elses labour. Which does make sense on one level. However it doesn't take into account that the provider is paid for their labour, or the means by which revenue is generated to pay for that labour.

So of course then there's the weird perception in the US that using taxes to pay for it (as we do in the UK) is a step towards communism...... so they are therefore stuck with the insurance model, which as you can see from the wiki page is painful to implement.
 




yxee

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2011
2,521
Manchester
The poor didn't vote for Trump: the lower income groups voted heavily for Clinton - she had an 11% lead over Trump among those with incomes under $50,000 ($55k is the median income in the US).
Polls fail again, keep using the polls... How do you have any confidence in that figure?!!!
 




Half Time Pies

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2003
1,578
Brighton
Obamacare isn't a universal health care system like the NHS.

The wiki page is pretty good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

The act itself is ridiculously complex, but the upshot is that a lot of people who were already insured saw their premiums rise.

If you didn't have insurance you could be fined. If a company employs more than 50 people but doesn't provide healthcare they can be fined.

The approach to what you are entitled or have a right to is tricky in the USA. A common reply to "right to healthcare" is that a person does not have a right to the results of someone elses labour. Which does make sense on one level. However it doesn't take into account that the provider is paid for their labour, or the means by which revenue is generated to pay for that labour.

So of course then there's the weird perception in the US that using taxes to pay for it (as we do in the UK) is a step towards communism...... so they are therefore stuck with the insurance model, which as you can see from the wiki page is painful to implement.

Ironically they spend more than twice per capita on healthcare than as the average developed country.

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Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
19,876
Indiana, USA
All sounds good - '..................................taking care of our people, our veterans' - but just where does repealing Obamacare fit with taking care of people. Seriously, can someone explain? I would have thought that a health care scheme would be welcomed by the poor, disenfranchised and dis-satisfied groups that seem to have voted for DT.

From what I could understand the majority feel that Obamacare has been a failure because it has only driven up the cost of health care. Premiums in some areas for the government healthcare were going up as much 21% for 2017.
 




Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
19,876
Indiana, USA




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
From what I could understand the majority feel that Obamacare has been a failure because it has only driven up the cost of health care. Premiums in some areas for the government healthcare were going up as much 21% for 2017.
Think of Obamacare as car insurance for all banger racers.

The problem is there isn't enough well people signed up for it.

If you're fit and healthy in America you're likely to already have health insurance, therefore you didn't need Obamacare.
So naturally the reverse is also true.
Those signing into Obamacare needed it so subsequently used the 'safety net', pushing premiums up due to the lack of cover provided by 'well' people.
 


So.CalGull

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2010
505
Orange County. California.
Obamacare isn't a universal health care system like the NHS.

The wiki page is pretty good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

The act itself is ridiculously complex, but the upshot is that a lot of people who were already insured saw their premiums rise.

If you didn't have insurance you could be fined. If a company employs more than 50 people but doesn't provide healthcare they can be fined.

The approach to what you are entitled or have a right to is tricky in the USA. A common reply to "right to healthcare" is that a person does not have a right to the results of someone elses labour. Which does make sense on one level. However it doesn't take into account that the provider is paid for their labour, or the means by which revenue is generated to pay for that labour.

So of course then there's the weird perception in the US that using taxes to pay for it (as we do in the UK) is a step towards communism...... so they are therefore stuck with the insurance model, which as you can see from the wiki page is painful to implement.

The main rises are for those who shop for their insurance as individuals, the majority of people are in group plans, which were not scheduled for major rises, just in line with inflation. The idea is for companies and families to buy as a group, thus being able to keep the prices down, same way in theory if you buy bulk of anything.
 








GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,402
Gloucester
The main rises are for those who shop for their insurance as individuals, the majority of people are in group plans, which were not scheduled for major rises, just in line with inflation. The idea is for companies and families to buy as a group, thus being able to keep the prices down, same way in theory if you buy bulk of anything.

Wonder why this hasn't apparently been happening then.
 


Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
19,876
Indiana, USA
Sam Harris - President Trump and the Failure of the Left

https://youtu.be/f27qaDQ1uG8

In a country that is evenly split between left/right this guy is just part of the rightist media. They spew this stuff all day long feeding the fears of the right. The main stream media in the large cities tends to spew out stuff for the left. Did you hear one word in favour of anything the Democrats did? Maybe one where Hillary Clinton called the Islamic extremists the correct word.
 






Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,857
Uffern
Polls fail again, keep using the polls... How do you have any confidence in that figure?!!!

Because it's an exit poll, not on people's intentions but how they voted - exit polls are pretty spot on. The BBC one on GE day was very accurate.

It's also worth pointing out the polls in the US election weren't widely out - most of them were predicting about a 3 to 4% lead for Clinton at the end. She won the vote by about 1.5% so they were in the margin of error
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
oh I've read NSC long enough to know you hate the gays Looney

Got any proof of that defamation or a retraction?
I think you have serious mental health problems and heres why.

Puting a list of gay issues together would start with sex, then marrage, gay adoption, speach codes homophobia/gay jokes, pride, pension rights and no doubt a few more I oppose gay adoption and speach codes, for specific reasons. Meaning I accept most the gay agenda and yet you would lump me in with Islamic State! I mean if an IS poster started posting about throwing gays of buildings what would you post then? That they hate gays but with the caps lock on?

The only one hating in this thread is you.

The MSM has lied all through the campaign and is still at it, Brietbart has been the only honest media outlet so trumps win was no surprise to those reading it.

Here is an example of the BBC faking it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37948755

https://www.facebook.com/myiannopou...3006854503882/779334792204418/?type=3&theater
 


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