US election (merged threads)

[drew]

There seems to be one striking difference between us and the Americans from what I have gathered from the TV interviews. For those who didn't get the result they wanted yesterday, it seems they are still prepared to support their country and make things work for the better. They seem far more patriotic than some of the shysters we have in this country who have already tried to put in the spanner in the works and derail brexit just because they didn't get the result they wanted. It is all so negative in this country and it feels like people want brexit to fail.

Looks like you spoke too soon!

 

[Gwylan]

There seems to be one striking difference between us and the Americans from what I have gathered from the TV interviews. For those who didn't get the result they wanted yesterday, it seems they are still prepared to support their country and make things work for the better. They seem far more patriotic than some of the shysters we have in this country who have already tried to put in the spanner in the works and derail brexit just because they didn't get the result they wanted. It is all so negative in this country and it feels like people want brexit to fail.

Are you totally bonkers? There are demonstrations all over the US, with riot police having to be called in. I can't recall a single violent protest after the EU referendum

 

[pb21]

There seems to be one striking difference between us and the Americans from what I have gathered from the TV interviews. For those who didn't get the result they wanted yesterday, it seems they are still prepared to support their country and make things work for the better. They seem far more patriotic than some of the shysters we have in this country who have already tried to put in the spanner in the works and derail brexit just because they didn't get the result they wanted. It is all so negative in this country and it feels like people want brexit to fail.

I know we live in a post truth age, but this is ridiculously false in every respect!

 

[Half Time Pies]

This is all very interesting for me as I was writing about this in my undergraduate and masters degrees in International Relations back in the 90s. There was a consensus at the beginning of the 90s that with the collapse of the Berlin wall that we had as a human race reached 'the end of history' where effectively the preponderance of western liberal democracy and globalisation would lead to a stable world. I think until 911 most of us probably fell in to the trap of believing that this would be the case. What we had was a unipolar world order where the United States surfaced from the cold war as the sole dominating power in world politics. The US kept 100,000 troops stationed in Asia and Europe and by guaranteeing the safety of its allies subdued the need for security of other states. This paved the way for closer economic and political cooperation between states across the globe.

However this dominance has been economically costly and particularly since the recession for the US has become more difficult. What we are now seeing I believe with the election of Trump is the final move away for the US from a position of a global hegemonic power. Understandably the US people are more concerned with whats happening on their own doorstep, jobs, immigration, poverty and we will now see the US taking a more isolationist stance in the International realm and perhaps even the end of organisations such as NATO which Trump has already declared obsolete.

In the UK with Brexit we have seen a similar movement. A majority of the population being unwilling to continue to foot the bill for economic and political integration with other European states when the overall economy is struggling and people are thinking about their own families and communities first and foremost.

What this all this means collectively is a change in the world order from a unipolar world to a multipolar world with several global players emerging all pursuing their own self interest. We already see Russia prodding at the cracks in the US and allied forces commitment to action in the middle east and starting to flex its military muscle more and more. Expect to see more of this from Russia and the likes of China as the barriers to trade start to go up. Expect to see cracks in the relationship between European countries start to grow wider. The problem: a multi-polar world is less stable and more prone to conflict, it leads to increased suspicion of others motives, weapons proliferation and arms races, military alliances over economic ones. I hope that I am wrong but this cycle has happened throughout history time and time again.

 

[alfredmizen]

Are you totally bonkers? There are demonstrations all over the US, with riot police having to be called in. I can't recall a single violent protest after the EU referendum

No [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] isn't totally bonkers , he is talking about the democrat politicians, and various others interviewed on TV yesterday who were expressing the wish that it works out for trump as president as opposed to bellends here like Sadiq Khan here who immediately started spouting crap about London breaking away from the uk (yes I know it was tongue in cheek), it doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to work that out.

 

[Randsta]

This is another example where the majority of the people DON'T get what they want ...and that's democracy? ....It's more like the mouthy Minority NOT the silent majority.

 

[Titanic]

This is another example where the majority of the people DON'T get what they want ...and that's democracy? ....It's more like the mouthy Minority NOT the silent majority.

They all had the chance to campaign and vote for what they want.

They knew the system they were operating under.

If they chose not to vote, or to pile up votes in easy areas rather than target states that really mattered, then they get what they deserve.

And should quit their whinging.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is another example where the majority of the people DON'T get what they want ...and that's democracy? ....It's more like the mouthy Minority NOT the silent majority.

28 states wanted Trump, only 20 wanted Clinton.

The majority did get what they wanted.

(at this stage with 4 still undecided)

 

[Chicken Run]

Has Lord Bracknell commented yet, iirc I seem the remember he was supporting a Obama love fest at the Old Market many years ago post his election?

 

[Chicken Run]

This is another example where the majority of the people DON'T get what they want ...and that's democracy? ....It's more like the mouthy Minority NOT the silent majority.

I have had 8 US Presidents in my lifetime and I can confidently say not one has affected my life, so whilst I'm sure your right who gives a tshit

 

[carlzeiss]

Interesting article in the Telegraph regarding the situation in Italy if you can bring your self to view :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-could-be-next-victim-of-populist-backlash/

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Tired of being told what is best for them by a deracinated elite, fed up with having mass immigration and multiculturalism and political correctness foisted on them, people tell the political and intellectual Establishment that its days are numbered.

If that is populism then its emergence is not before time.

 

[alfredmizen]

Tired of being told what is best for them by a deracinated elite, fed up with having mass immigration and multiculturalism and political correctness foisted on them, people tell the political and intellectual Establishment that its days are numbered.

If that is populism then its emergence is not before time.

Spot on.

 

[beorhthelm]

I have had 8 US Presidents in my lifetime and I can confidently say not one has affected my life, so whilst I'm sure your right who gives a tshit

i can tell you effects of the their foreign policy and macro economic policy bloody well have affected you. for one thing, the roots of the 2008 financial crisis are in policy from Clinton.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I have had 8 US Presidents in my lifetime and I can confidently say not one has affected my life, so whilst I'm sure your right who gives a tshit

Extraordinary. I've heard the earth is flat as well.

 

[Gwylan]

No [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] isn't totally bonkers , he is talking about the democrat politicians, and various others interviewed on TV yesterday who were expressing the wish that it works out for trump as president as opposed to bellends here like Sadiq Khan here who immediately started spouting crap about London breaking away from the uk (yes I know it was tongue in cheek), it doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to work that out.

He didn't say that though, he said Americans were accepting the result - even as tens of thousands of people are taking to the streets.

And I don't recall many senior politicians contesting the Brexit vote. The leaders of both main parties, both Remainers, said that Brexit means Brexit and should happen right away, as have most senior MPs. There have been one or two who said they should fight it (notably Tony Blair) but there have been several politicians in the US who have said they'll continue to fight against Trump,

I know we live in post-fact age but things are getting ridiculous now

 

[Simster]

Tired of being told what is best for them by a deracinated elite, fed up with having mass immigration and multiculturalism and political correctness foisted on them, people tell the political and intellectual Establishment that its days are numbered.

If that is populism then its emergence is not before time.

This is how Trump won of course, he appealed to the ordinary white working man and made them think a vote for him was a vote for exactly that. It isn't any such thing though, and I suspect they are in for a far worse time of it. There is a great article in this weeks Economist that explains this pretty well:

"Since I've been voting, it's always been Clinton or Bush; I want a different name", say Rob, the site superintendent
On the face of it, this is irrational. The men's union membership brings privileges, including pay a third higher than their non-unionised colleagues make, which Mrs Clinton supports and Mr Trump threatens to dismantle.

 

[Randsta]

28 states wanted Trump, only 20 wanted Clinton.

The majority did get what they wanted.

(at this stage with 4 still undecided)

I think you will find she won the "popular vote"....so that means she got more Votes that Trump

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=total+number+of+votes+for+trump+and+clinton

 

[Simster]

i can tell you effects of the their foreign policy and macro economic policy bloody well have affected you. for one thing, the roots of the 2008 financial crisis are in policy from Clinton.

Anyone who knows someone effected by various Middle-Easterns wars are also affected. My wife's friend lost her army son in Afghanistan, for example.

 

[Albion my Albion]

There are thoughts within the American collective thinking that Trump doesn't know what the hell he will do as a leader of his country and if the American public doesn't come-together and support him the most likely thing is great chaos. The Republicans will fight with him as they already have. His running mate, VP Chris Pence, is part of the Republican ruling class and will work to bridge the tension between him and Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House of Representatives, but there are very contentious times ahead for Ryan and Trump. The Democrats see openings for appointments with in his administration.

After elections it is normal for American politicians to extend the hand of peace and then fall right back into squabbling. Let's hope the internal squabbling between the Republicans and Trump is much less for the world's sake than the Obama/Democrats vs Ryan/McConnell (Kentucky Republican majority leader in the US Senate)/Republicans fights in the past.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/07/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-racist-comment/

http://fortune.com/2016/06/30/mcconnell-battles-trump-backlash-threatening-gop-senate-control/