US election (merged threads)

[Gwylan]

You're spot on about Sanders having very little dirt on him or bringing significant baggage. I suspect that the Trump team would have made a big play on Sanders claim of being a socialist even though outside of America he's more like a Lib Dem than what we would think of as a socialist. Sanders would probably have had less financial backing than Trump but that's not necessarily a bad thing and if his campaign in the Primaries was anything to go by, he would have had a grass roots campaign unlike any other.

I'm sure they would have. But the interesting thing about that is that it would have meant Trump saying something about the economy,

As I said in another thread, the truism about (American) elections is that it's all about the economy and yet the Democrats lost despite the economy doing reasonably well. But what's even more bizarre is that the winning candidate outlined virtually no economic policies - there was a sketchily drawn tax plan and plenty of rhetoric about free trade but virtually no detail at all. It goes against the grain on how elections are won and lost

 

[Boy Blue]

Anyone notice these chaps?

Prince Andrew visited his island but the government have said the Royals have immunity from investigation. How about Bill Clinton visiting peadophile island with Prince Andrew.

Hillary and Bill are nonces.

[yt]9itWsqzFMVo[/yt]

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Spot the difference?

Yes, I can spot the difference. One leader respects a democratic election in another country and seeks advantage for her own country. The other leader doesn't. It's politics and it is more important than empty words. Merkel's antagonistic approach will likely rebound on her country when discussing trade and other issues. She of course will not be affected because she is rich but she will get a warm fuzzy feeling.
One of Trump's many failings is a lack of respect for democracy as evidenced by his refusal to confirm that he would accept the result if he lost. You have highlighted a big difference between May and Merkel and a smaller difference (in respect for democracy) between Merkel and Trump.

 

[Gwylan]

The next big shock in world politics will probably be the re-run of the Austrian Presidential elections next month where it looks very likely that the far-right will win and we will have our first out and out far right leader of a Western country since Franco. And then after that there is France and Le Pen. Yikes!

i don't think Le Pen will win though - she's level pegging in the polls with Juppé and Sarkozy at the moment, while Hollande is way behind. I suspect that Valls will be the Socialist candidate, although he'd still do poorly. But in a two-horse run-off, most of the socialist votes and Sarko's will go to Juppé.

Time for the 2002 slogan - "Votez escroc, pas fasho!" - again

 

[Buzzer]

I'm sure they would have. But the interesting thing about that is that it would have meant Trump saying something about the economy,

As I said in another thread, the truism about (American) elections is that it's all about the economy and yet the Democrats lost despite the economy doing reasonably well. But what's even more bizarre is that the winning candidate outlined virtually no economic policies - there was a sketchily drawn tax plan and plenty of rhetoric about free trade but virtually no detail at all. It goes against the grain on how elections are won and lost

You say that about the elections being about the economy and I think that generally you're right but Al Gore lost the 2000 election despite being Vice-P during which the Clinton administration managed the impossible by balancing the budget and Gore's opponent being an ill-suited candidate who was weaker and more vague on just about every subject. Gore also won the popular vote despite losing the election so there is a precedent...God help us if Trump is as bad as Dubya.

 

[Buzzer]

i don't think Le Pen will win though - she's level pegging in the polls with Juppé and Sarkozy at the moment, while Hollande is way behind. I suspect that Valls will be the Socialist candidate, although he'd still do poorly. But in a two-horse run-off, most of the socialist votes and Sarko's will go to Juppé.

Time for the 2002 slogan - "Votez escroc, pas fasho!" - again

I must recommend the book 'Submission' by Michel Houllebecq to you. The plot is from a similar scenario where the run-off is between Le Pen and the unity candidate which happens to be the Muslim Brotherhood!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

George Carlin said something that made me take notice: “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”

How about the millions who switched from Obama last time to Trump this election (or didn't vote at all which has the same consequence). Were they stupid when they voted for Obama as well ? If so, why did no-one mention it at the time ? Or have they become stupid in the last few years ?
Really irritates me when people call other people stupid when what they mean is they disagree. I would very much like to defeat the ideas that have given rise to a Trump presidency but this will become increasingly difficult if the intellectually lazy option of dishing out insults is chosen.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The staggering statistic for me is that so many Democrat voters stayed at home. I think there was 18m less votes cast in this election than in 2012 where Mitt Romney got 60.9m votes and lost by 5m votes whereas in 2016 Trump has 58.1m and neck and neck with HRC in terms of popular vote.

It's hard to believe that there are Democrat voters out there who supported Obama but couldn't bring themselves to vote for HRC despite such a clearly divisive opponent. Either they got complacent because of the media telling them that Trump could not win or they simply don't like HRC. It goes to show that if the Democrats had picked Joe Biden or even Sanders then they would probably have won handsomely.

I recently spent just under a month in the States, and found many Democrat voters would not be voting as they really despised Clinton.

Biden would have walked it.

 

[portslade seagull]

The next big shock in world politics will probably be the re-run of the Austrian Presidential elections next month where it looks very likely that the far-right will win and we will have our first out and out far right leader of a Western country since Franco. And then after that there is France and Le Pen. Yikes!

Liberalism died with the vote fur Trump. It will take 2-3 yrs to filter through but normally what's happens there gradually creeps in everywhere

 

[Gwylan]

You say that about the elections being about the economy and I think that generally you're right but Al Gore lost the 2000 election despite being Vice-P during which the Clinton administration managed the impossible by balancing the budget and Gore's opponent being an ill-suited candidate who was weaker and more vague on just about every subject. Gore also won the popular vote despite losing the election so there is a precedent...God help us if Trump is as bad as Dubya.

Yes, good point, although there was also a strong showing from a third-party candidate in Ralph Nader, who almost certainly cost Gore votes. He was beaten in FL by 500 votes, if he'd won there, he'd have been president

Probably even more importanty, Dubya was seen as a regular guy, one you could have a beer with, while Gore was viewed as a cold fish and a technocrat. Again, there are shades of this year's election

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

George Carlin said something that made me take notice: “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”

The so called Stupidity is the stupidity of Liberalism that allowed this to happen in the first place,with a little "less" Liberal ways along the way,this result would not have happen,nor Brexit.

So really the finger can be pointed at the so called stupid,but i suspect the law of cause and effect has played it's self out.

 

[pb21]

Yes, I can spot the difference. One leader respects a democratic election in another country and seeks advantage for her own country. The other leader doesn't. It's politics and it is more important than empty words. Merkel's antagonistic approach will likely rebound on her country when discussing trade and other issues. She of course will not be affected because she is rich but she will get a warm fuzzy feeling.
One of Trump's many failings is a lack of respect for democracy as evidenced by his refusal to confirm that he would accept the result if he lost. You have highlighted a big difference between May and Merkel and a smaller difference (in respect for democracy) between Merkel and Trump.

IMO Merkel's words were diplomatic as befits her office, May's were weak.

And how on earth are you coming to the conclusion that Merkel's words indicate she doesn't respect democratic elections?!

 

[portslade seagull]

Goodbye,Merkel,Junker,Hollande. Welcome Putin

Who knows stranger things have happened and just did this morning. Never underestimate the voter because they are a strange breed

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Do you really expect her to say " I can't believe he won, the blokes a tosser" ? Of course you don't she's the prime minister and he's the president elect , Corbin was pretty non committal when he was interviewed as well, did you miss that one ?

I would expect her to say something along the lines of " As a woman, of course i disagree with what Mr Trump has said about women, how could i possibly agree with it"
It would have been the truth, Trump has just spent 18 months shooting from the hip and i think he is the type of person who appreciates straight talking, diplomacy has nothing to do with it in response to that particular question.
So, already, the British PM is scared to say what is right and as usual will be in the pocket of The President who after May's diplomatic reply is probably already thinking that she will be easy to do exactly what i want.
It was the same with Blair & Bush, and as for Cameron trying to be the first to meet Obama, well that was just embarrassing.
Thatcher & Reagan was slightly different, still sucking up but in a different context.

 

[Questions]

Groveling appologies required by those outspoken detractors who recklessly nailed their colours to the mast. They include Westminster, the Regions, the Establishment, and all the Media. They haven't learned a thing over recent British elections!

We now have to find a path to a smooth relationship with the new president of our best friends and soul mates. I hope Trump is more conciliatory than you lot?

Why would anyone who nailed their colours to the mask against Trump feel any different now. Shit post mate.
The man is a c....unt.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

IMO Merkel's words were diplomatic as befits her office, May's were weak.

And how on earth are you coming to the conclusion that Merkel's words indicate she doesn't respect democratic elections?!

Because she will work with Trump on conditions set by her,in Germany. She is typical of the global liberal elite in that she is essentially talking to her own liberal constituency rather than to the new American president. That is not in the interest of
ordinary working class Germans. This is precisely why Trump won the election. He is an appalling choice in my opinion and the main reason he won is that Americans are tired of wealthy liberals like Clinton. We have many of these in UK and European politics as well. They think they are superior to others and in Merkel's case she thinks she can welcome a new president on her terms rather than the terms of the American people.

 

[portslade seagull]

Because she will work with Trump on conditions set by her,in Germany. She is typical of the global liberal elite in that she is essentially talking to her own liberal constituency rather than to the new American president. That is not in the interest of
ordinary working class Germans. This is precisely why Trump won the election. He is an appalling choice in my opinion and the main reason he won is that Americans are tired of wealthy liberals like Clinton. We have many of these in UK and European politics as well. They think they are superior to others and in Merkel's case she thinks she can welcome a new president on her terms rather than the terms of the American people.

If Merkel thinks along those lines she has a shock coming

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Corbin actually said that " Donald Trump ran a divisive and hateful campaign. ". You obviously missed that.

But as Corbyn will never be anywhere near to becoming PM, his response is highly irrelevant.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I would expect her to say something along the lines of " As a woman, of course i disagree with what Mr Trump has said about women, how could i possibly agree with it"
It would have been the truth, Trump has just spent 18 months shooting from the hip and i think he is the type of person who appreciates straight talking, diplomacy has nothing to do with it in response to that particular question.
So, already, the British PM is scared to say what is right and as usual will be in the pocket of The President who after May's diplomatic reply is probably already thinking that she will be easy to do exactly what i want.

So why didn't Merkel say those things?

 

[El Presidente]

Stock markets have shrugged the result off, apart from mining and health care stocks which have risen. Trump isn't a fool even though he's odious. Remember the alternative to Trump from the GOP was Ted Cruz, which is a far scarier thought.