[News] Undercover: Exposing the far right. Channel 4

[BadFish]

With apologies. Easy mistake to make when being on the outside looking in.

Where would you suggest I position myself. Above? Round the side?

Come and join us and have a look from the inside.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Totally agree that I don't really see what the labels left or right add in this context. But **** is a personal opinion. Many people love Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate. Many equally despised Nelson Mandela.

In my mind, the basic values that you would teach your kids at a young age cover all of this stuff. Try to be kind. Try to treat other people how you would want to be treated yourself if you were in that position

I am not sure that people having weird and perverse views about Tommy Robinson (definitely a ****), Andrew Tate (definitely a double-plus ****) and Nelson Mandela (not a ****) makes it unfair of me to describe people behaving like ****s as being ****s.

But I agree that other opinions are always available.

Right, I'm now off to explore my new opinion that the sea is above the sky. Back later

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Come and join us and have a look from the inside.

In all seriousness, I have lots of Aussie mates and of course I'm not saying you weird primitives are all the same. Normally I find naïve candour to be quite refreshing.

 

[BadFish]

In all seriousness, I have lots of Aussie mates and of course I'm not saying you weird primitives are all the same. Normally I find naïve candour to be quite refreshing.

Yeah I know. Apologies my comment was probably unnecessary, I am a grumpy bastard this evening.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course you're correct, but that wasn't what I meant.

More that left and right labels to extreme thinking are unhelpful. So if some nutter is labelled far right and i consider myself middle right, i'm more likely to have a measure of sympathy with him / her than if we don't label them like this at all.

Far better to apply more basic principles when we review a set of actions from a person. Eg, have they passed the Bill and Ted test to be excellent to each other?

Why have people devoted more than half this thread in an apparent effort to refute @wellquickwoody's ludicrous assertion that criticism of facists in the UK is merely an expression of how UK society has lurched to the left since he left these shores for dear old Australia?

He can play the man if he wants, but meanwhile there is a serious 'game' being played.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yeah I know. Apologies my comment was probably unnecessary, I am a grumpy bastard this evening.

No worries, mate.

 

[BadFish]

No worries, mate.

See, you'd fit right in


Cobber.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That's right, nice to see a good old bit of balance provided. There's just so many of them on the left, what with their principles of equality. As to the right with their infatuations with hierarchies and inequalities, hardly any racists there.
And it's as if the 'far left' is on the march currently, whereas we rarely hear a tickety-boo out of the far right, and it's not as if they haven't got ooo things like presidential candidates, press barons,, global players and owners of broadcast and social media punting out their messages.

I agree with your general point. Racism (especially the 'harmless' form, with 'bantz') does tend to manifest primarily from a large cohort of the 'right', while 'antiracism' (a philosophy I have seen attacked on NSC by people who also attack 'woke') is generally a thing of the left.

However, if you start chatting to some people (a minority I accept) on the 'left' about 'the Jews' then racism soon becomes apparent. Especially after a few drinks.

One of my old pals posted on Facebook today a trope mocking Starmer and the labour government for not doing anything about Israel's abuses in Gaza for a whole year (during which time Starmer has been PM for only the recent months). As if Starmer is the worst thing about right wing Britain.

That's the hard left attacking Starmer for not demanding the Jews get into the sea during the hours after Hamas launched an attack on Israel, killing civilians, and captured a load of hostages, while Starmer was leader of the opposition.

Criticism as delusional performance art.

The hard left can be self-destructively f***ing annoying. And racist. But indeed, there are proportionately fewer of them than the f***ing annoying and racist hard (and not so hard) right.

Perspective

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

See, you'd fit right in


Cobber.

I genuinely didn't mean that as a piss take, but it is quite likely my neurodivergent mind made a subconscious connection.

(I suspect I'd either fit in nicely, or end up in the sea, were I to take the convict's sixpence. )

 

[clapham_gull]

...ludicrous assertion that criticism of facists in the UK is merely an expression of how UK society has lurched to the left since he left these shores..

Added to the fact that a number of the characters involved have been knocking about for years in far right circles and there have been previous documentaries.

What the programme didn't really touch on is how they are always falling out and forming splinter groups.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Added to the fact that a number of the characters involved have been knocking about for years in far right circles and there have been previous documentaries.

What the programme didn't really touch on is how they are always falling out and forming splinter groups.

Are you talking splitters?

 

[Pavilionaire]

A cake maker in the UK refused a contract to produce a cake for a gay wedding and ended up in court!

These days you can't even call that Fairy Cake-gate

 

[wellquickwoody]

Made without watching the show mentioned too.

Where we are at as a society I suppose.

I was not commenting on the content of the programme, just the assertion of the moving of the Overton window.

For info of others, your assumption was wrong too. Nord VPN, necessary for the Mrs to watch Strictly. Assumption……..you know the rest

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why have people devoted more than half this thread in an apparent effort to refute @wellquickwoody's ludicrous assertion that criticism of facists in the UK is merely an expression of how UK society has lurched to the left since he left these shores for dear old Australia?

He can play the man if he wants, but meanwhile there is a serious 'game' being played.

OI! I was making a point about the movement of the window of discourse over the last twenty years.

 

[The Clamp]

People thought the internet would build a global village.

Instead we got a horde of village idiots waving flaming torches and pitchforks.

 

[WATFORD zero]

OI! I was making a point about the movement of the window of discourse over the last twenty years.

By quoting a case where UK law found the complete and utter opposite of your hypothesis

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

OI! I was making a point about the movement of the window of discourse over the last twenty years.

Apologies if I misunderstood. It seemed you were commenting on the movement of the window of discourse with a modicum of....regret.

 

[HangletonGull]

Watching it now , finding it a very hard watch , can’t believe there’s actually there’s these sort of people around in 2024

 

[clapham_gull]

Watching it now , finding it a very hard watch , can’t believe there’s actually there’s these sort of people around in 2024

They've been around for years and never went away. A few are old school neo nazis and there is much gnashing of teeth over others on the extreme support for Israel. I try not to find it amusing but they literally fall out regarding which group is most authentically racist.

 

[clapham_gull]

I fund the phrase "far left" a bit odd when used in this country. They simply don't exist as a political force, although I can easily point you to pockets of it. A few are still banging the drum in London.

It's only used by those in denial on the "hard right" to excuse how aligned they have become (if only in rhetoric alone) to the traditional far right.