Unchain The Brighton Motorist

[Chicken Runner61]

Is reducing the speed limit to 20mph really 'anti-car'? Is bringing in bus and cycle lanes (as actively promoted by the Tories) 'anti-car'? I mean... really?

Does this include the 80 or so other councils who have also brought in 20mph speed restrictions - none of whom are Green?

Aside from that, Brighton is doing OK. Parts of the city are being tarted up (e.g. London Road, finally), IT companies are moving in (seems to be a bit of a buzz around that particular commercial sector - I don't understand it myself), and the government has given the 'Greater Brighton' project the go ahead, providing £170m of investment.

Damn those knees.

No its not anti car - its a nice little earner.

Not everyone works in IT, lives in the centre of Brighton, can cycle or can afford to eat, drink and shop in North Laines though.

many people need a car/van to either drive across brighton, out of Brighton or carry goods into Brighton.

 

[BN9 BHA]

The traders permit is the best but its expensive and they don't like giving them out............................ so there is a waiting list!

They have got rid of a few loading bays and single yellows too and there is nothing better than getting a ticket when you have a permit and have to park on yellows because you can't find a space in Hanover!

Its free parking up there but they have 2 or three wardens on scooters running around giving out tickets to people working that can't find a space.

After reading this thread it sounds like I'm better off not working in Brighton.

Hanover sounds like fun these days, it used to be busy about 10 years back but some of the roads half way up Southover St were ok for a space.

Going back to traders permits I'm sure I read that one heating company had x amount of vans but were not allowed permits for every van.

 

[brighton bluenose]

The reason Brighton has done well (relatively) is that we have a steady influx of people selling a £2M house in London and buying a £750K house in Brighton and spending £100k doing it up.

Some of them also buy another house or development and rent it out to provide an income, others set up a business in the hope they can stay here and not have to work back in London.

All that money filters to quite a few businesses across the city and then in to the council.

~Thats why it appears we are doing better than other parts.

On the downside - this is driving Brightonians out who can't compete to buy houses and flats and causing great diversity of wages.

Whilst house prices were always a problem A few years ago young people could always find a house/flat that was cheap enough and needed doing up and when they did it they could move forward from there. Now every property that has a development value is snapped up by outside developers or rich people to buy and let giving people on low wages no chance. This send the rents and property prices up making the circle even tighter.

If thats doing fairly well well I suppose we are.

Pretty bad for the future though

You may well be right and theres a large part of what you are saying that I would not disagree with BUT the poster that I replied to said that the Green council has brought businesses to their knees and that is utter shyte!!

 

[£1.99]

After reading this thread it sounds like I'm better off not working in Brighton.

Hanover sounds like fun these days, it used to be busy about 10 years back but some of the roads half way up Southover St were ok for a space.

Going back to traders permits I'm sure I read that one heating company had x amount of vans but were not allowed permits for every van.

I do have a lot of sympathy for you, it sounds to me like you just want to work, earn a wage to support you and your family. But if as you say it's almost impossible to find parking spaces, surely that must mean there are just to many cars in the city.

 

[brighton bluenose]

I don't want to go into too much detail on a public forum as the people concerned are my family. I can assure you that after establishing the business nearly 40 years ago, the road and parking restrictions in place have almost crippled them. Let's say you want to buy something from a shop that's too big to put in your pocket or a bag. Let's say it's too big to take on the bus and the only way to buy it is to put it in your car and drive it home. If driving and parking is being made as difficult as it currently is then you are going to lose custom. Being put on a waiting list for a traders license (which you might not even be granted) to be able to do something like put a bit of your stock out on the forecourt to attract punters (something that the business has done for 40 years) I'm not making it up, I am told about it on a daily basis. If I am mistaken and the greens are not responsible for the recent road closures and redevelopment of this particular area then I hold my hands up. I do hear Jason Kitcats name crop up a hell of a lot though.



When did I mention the city centre?

We will have to take on face value what you are saying about your family business however I know a lot of people try and blame the Greens because their business is performing poorly due to the recession, to internet shopping and to out of town shopping malls.

Why on earth in this day and age would you drive into town to buy a sofa or say a printer when you can research it on the web, find the cheapest price and then get it delivered promptly?!

 

[brighton bluenose]

I'd hardly call North Laines a shopping centre - in the seventies it was - Sydney Street / Gardners St and kensington Gardens were a hive of small businesses, butchers greengrocers hardwear shops galore even a comet (Rayfords) and it was a hard working area - There and London Road was the place to go shopping.

Now its more arts and crafts with lots of right on food shops which I'm not knocking because I like it but you go there to have a beer rather than shop

What on earth are you on about ~ there are dozens and dozens of shops in the North Laines and they must outnumber the pubs by 30~1! From memory Gardner Street has one pub ~ The Dorset, Sydney Street has The Office and Kensington Gardens has The Kensington or whatever! OK there are pubs in NoRth Road and Church St etc but the idea that that this is not a shopping area and that you just go for a beer in this area is just rubbish!!

 

[Max Paper]

We will have to take on face value what you are saying about your family business however I know a lot of people try and blame the Greens because their business is performing poorly due to the recession, to internet shopping and to out of town shopping malls.

Why on earth in this day and age would you drive into town to buy a sofa or say a printer when you can research it on the web, find the cheapest price and then get it delivered promptly?!

Some people prefer to use independent, friendly, local companies whose stock changes daily, that every day there is something different in the window and even the proprietor doesn't know what it's going to be so a website is fairly pointless. Believe it or not there are a fair few of us out there! If people make life difficult for the public to come to you then you are going to suffer. High parking costs and traffic wardens who appear out of nowhere make stopping for a 'quick browse' less appealing. It's not just the Greens I know that, but they certainly are not helping traders.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I do have a lot of sympathy for you, it sounds to me like you just want to work, earn a wage to support you and your family. But if as you say it's almost impossible to find parking spaces, surely that must mean there are just to many cars in the city.

No sympathy required, thank you, I have built up lots of regular customers in Newhaven and the surrounding areas and I also get recommendations from local people and I do some local advertising.

I was asked to estimate a job off St James's Street about 6 years back, i can't remember the exact street but there was no legal parking, I couldn't find a space in the next street and the next, I phoned the customer and said I was struggling to park, the customer said if I parked in her road she would watch my van, I said if I did her job which was approx 9 hours work I couldn't
expect her to watch my van all day and I would get a parking ticket.
That customer gave me some very good advice that day, she had a rant and told me " you should stick to the suburbs"
Decision was made for me that day to stop working in Central Brighton, I do miss Brighton as I was born and bred there, but I can't be bothered with the parking situation.
If I visit Brighton now( not for work) I get the bus or train, I get the train to the Amex.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you that there are just too many cars in the city.

 

[LadySeagull]

What on earth are you on about ~ there are dozens and dozens of shops in the North Laines and they must outnumber the pubs by 30~1! From memory Gardner Street has one pub ~ The Dorset, Sydney Street has The Office and Kensington Gardens has The Kensington or whatever! OK there are pubs in NoRth Road and Church St etc but the idea that that this is not a shopping area and that you just go for a beer in this area is just rubbish!!

I agree with Chicken Runner61 and as a lifelong Brightonian I would never consider the North Laines as a 'shopping area'. It's a tourist area of quirky little shops with high prices for stupid tourists to pay. It's not a shopping area for locals, unlike London Road, which used to be a shopping area and is now ruined thanks to no-one being able to get there by car for several years in a row.

Not everyone can just get the bus or cycle round the City. If you are a parent dropping little kids off at nursery and then school (two different sites) then on to your job where you start at 8am, you can't do that by bus or cycle. Nor can you repeat it at the end of the day by public transport - it's not possible unless you have kids old enough and safe enough to ride on the roads (not an option in my case and I am typical of other working parents I know).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

many people need a car/van to either drive across brighton, out of Brighton or carry goods into Brighton.

It's this attitude which is the problem. I'm not convinced people need cars as much they feel they do. Some might do but a hell of a lot of people don't. And all the while this attitude prevails then the centre of Brighton will be the clogged up choking mess it currently is.

 

[£1.99]

I agree with Chicken Runner61 and as a lifelong Brightonian I would never consider the North Laines as a 'shopping area'. It's a tourist area of quirky little shops with high prices for stupid tourists to pay. It's not a shopping area for locals, unlike London Road, which used to be a shopping area and is now ruined thanks to no-one being able to get there by car for several years in a row.

Not everyone can just get the bus or cycle round the City. If you are a parent dropping little kids off at nursery and then school (two different sites) then on to your job where you start at 8am, you can't do that by bus or cycle. Nor can you repeat it at the end of the day by public transport - it's not possible unless you have kids old enough and safe enough to ride on the roads (not an option in my case and I am typical of other working parents I know).

If no one can get to London road by car how come every week i go there it's full with people in cars?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Two years ago even at peak traffic hours you could drive down Nevil Road from king Gorge (snakey) past the greyhound stadium and down Sackville Road through Old shoreham Traffic lights without much problem.

That was even with Hove Park School and Blatch kids being taken to school by card - it was busy but ok.

So since the council put in the EXTRA set of traffic lights at the engineerium ( for Legal & General staff) and made the left lane turning left ONLY into Old Shoreham Road and increased the number of light changes at 8am & 5pm the road is clogged all the way!

How is this better? What is the point, the waste of fuel, the pollution ! - Lewes Road is the same at peak periods now - Old shoreham Road the same. Its not an increase in volume of cars, its not to help cyclists it can only be to make life difficult for motorists.

Well if thats the case why not ban taking kids to school by car, why not ban 2 car families, why not make public transport free?

Wish I had made they post, 100% correct. And the Green answer is..........

 

[BadFish]

Maybe the answer is to give all tradesman free parking waivers just like window cleaners, sign writers and chimney sweeps get and restrict the times normal cars can drive into the city.

Certainly would be a simple and effective way round this mamouth problem. And if there were less cars in the city center then there would be plenty of places to park. I expect that with this waiver the tradies will jump on board with the idea.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree with Chicken Runner61 and as a lifelong Brightonian I would never consider the North Laines as a 'shopping area'.

Just because it's not full of high street brands doesn't mean it's not a shopping area.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why on earth in this day and age would you drive into town to buy a sofa or say a printer when you can research it on the web, find the cheapest price and then get it delivered promptly?!

Because I want to see, touch, feel, hear and even smell what I might be buying. Because I might want to ask a few questions about the product. Because I don't want to have to drive to collect the item when they try to deliver it when I am at work. Because I don't want to pay the return carriage charges when I discover that it is not the item I want?

Sanctimonious arse.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't want to go into too much detail on a public forum as the people concerned are my family. I can assure you that after establishing the business nearly 40 years ago, the road and parking restrictions in place have almost crippled them. Let's say you want to buy something from a shop that's too big to put in your pocket or a bag. Let's say it's too big to take on the bus and the only way to buy it is to put it in your car and drive it home. If driving and parking is being made as difficult as it currently is then you are going to lose custom. Being put on a waiting list for a traders license (which you might not even be granted) to be able to do something like put a bit of your stock out on the forecourt to attract punters (something that the business has done for 40 years) I'm not making it up, I am told about it on a daily basis. If I am mistaken and the greens are not responsible for the recent road closures and redevelopment of this particular area then I hold my hands up. I do hear Jason Kitcats name crop up a hell of a lot though.



When did I mention the city centre?

We will have to take on face value what you are saying about your family business however I know a lot of people try and blame the Greens because their business is performing poorly due to the recession, to internet shopping and to out of town shopping malls.

Why on earth in this day and age would you drive into town to buy a sofa or say a printer when you can research it on the web, find the cheapest price and then get it delivered promptly?!

I'd like to see it close up. To sit on the sofa. To see if the printer fitted neatly where I wanted to put it. To get a good close up look at that table. It's small items I get delivered online. If it's big and expensive I want to see it. And I do at out of town shopping complexes that I can get to quickly on the bypass, take the kids with me and park for free.

 

[BadFish]

Surely a car free city center with exceptions for those vehicles that need to do their business within the sensible car free boundaries is not that difficult a concept to grasp. Once the idea is floated then the fine details of making it work for most people can be worked out. The idea of a blanket ban on cars of every kind being banned from the city center is ridiculous, but then I would bet my life that this is not the idea.

The usual reactionary NSC negativity, misinformatio, assumptions and hyperbole seem to be stifling any real debate on this subject. Many of the arguments against the idea can easily be turned into arguments for the idea.

 

[£1.99]

Businesses seem to do ok in this city!
http://vimeo.com/77084110

 

[£1.99]

Surely a car free city center with exceptions for those vehicles that need to do their business within the sensible car free boundaries is not that difficult a concept to grasp. Once the idea is floated then the fine details of making it work for most people can be worked out. The idea of a blanket ban on cars of every kind being banned from the city center is ridiculous, but then I would bet my life that this is not the idea.

The usual reactionary NSC negativity, misinformatio, assumptions and hyperbole seem to be stifling any real debate on this subject. Many of the arguments against the idea can easily be turned into arguments for the idea.

Well said!

 

[BadFish]

I'd like to see it close up. To sit on the sofa. To see if the printer fitted neatly where I wanted to put it. To get a good close up look at that table. It's small items I get delivered online. If it's big and expensive I want to see it. And I do at out of town shopping complexes that I can get to quickly on the bypass, take the kids with me and park for free.

In time the furniture shops would relocate to outside the pedestrianised zone so you could do just that. Are there any furniture shops in the city center that you can park close to now. My last visit was last year but I can't imagine trying to park near enough to any particular shop to take home large items.