Unbelievable - Lucas advocates the use of recreational drugs

[CHAPPERS]

How are we supposed to know what our MPs stand for if they're not allowed to express their opinions publicly?

I tell you what I find more repugnant: Career politicians that sit on the fence and say nothing until their established party leaders tell them what to say.

This is a sensible post.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I find it hard to believe that some people are so dead against what Dr Lucas has said.

Our current policies and previous policies have clearly not worked.

She is not advocating the use of drugs. You would either have to be incredibly dense or very anti-Lucas to say or believe that or both.

If we are more open about drugs then we are going to be able to tackle the problems better. It is not a 'soft approach' per se. It is an approach designed to actually tackle the problems associated with drug addictions and the knock on criminal activities, rather than push it into dark alleyways or sweep the problem under the loose carpet of a rundown bedsit.

The word THIS, was invented for this post. Absolutely spot on.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, but I think it's fair to say I see and deal closely with the sort of people this discussion centres on (I mean the drug users, not Caroline Lucas...) on a daily basis, and it's pretty obvious that the current system can hardly be described as a success.

Anecdotally, I'd estimate 90% of the shoplifters I used to pick up in Brighton were heroin addicts. The vast majority of dwelling burglars (that is to say the ones who break into your home rather than the ones burgling business premises for equipment) are addicts. People would be genuinely shocked at how little their treasured possessions are sold on for, because the burglars aren't the sort of individuals in a position to stand around haggling for a decent price, all they want is another tenner to go and score again.

I'm sure Dr Lucas, like most MPs, has her good and bad points, but I think it's entirely reasonable for her to at least raise this as an item for discussion. Interesting that HB&B didn't rant about Graham Bartlett's identical viewpoint on the subject...but then again that wouldn't have suited his usual Lucas-bashing agenda, would it?

 

[Simster]

It can't be long before we see licensed narcotic use. The war on drugs is being lost convincingly, and good on Lucas for admitting as much, even though it is easy for her to say as she has as much chance of running the country as I have of opening an oyster with a bus ticket. Time for a rethink I'm afraid, and that means that we accept that squeezing demand is proving impossible, as is restricting supply.

I'd advocate a two tier system. Firstly, allow cannabis in its lower risk forms to be ready available in the same way as cigarettes and alcohol, and tax the f*** out of it. Allow it to be consumed out doors and on licensed premises only. Secondly, make other serious narcotics available but only from strictly licensed narcotic stores, where users could buy and consume the narcotics but only on especially monitored premises, away from the public eye, so off the high streets. They should not be glamorised and only made available to people registered as addicts - as an alternative to pumping their bodies with baking soda and rat poison. Ideally they can be monitored and help can be offered to get them off the stuff. I'm not interested in the tax angle from these places, the people who'd use them are desparate enough, and we as a society ought to be able to offer them help change their lives for the better.

The main problem I'd foresee is that you'd have so many understandable nimby problems to deal with - similar to the way strip clubs are objected to, only ten times more vociferous.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Secondly, make other serious narcotics available but only from strictly licensed narcotic stores, where users could buy and consume the narcotics but only on especially monitored premises, away from the public eye, so off the high streets. They should not be glamorised and only made available to people registered as addicts - as an alternative to pumping their bodies with baking soda and rat poison

We could call them, I don't know....pharmacies? ;-)

Methadone is already prescribed and controlled in this way. Strict conditions can and do apply- some addicts have to drink it in the shop, in front of the pharmacist, because they've been previously suspected of selling it on.

 

[Simster]

We could call them, I don't know....pharmacies? ;-)

Methadone is already prescribed and controlled in this way. Strict conditions can and do apply- some addicts have to drink it in the shop, in front of the pharmacist, because they've been previously suspected of selling it on.

Not quite because I'd still want consumption controlled to be honest. In addition, I'd rather have these drugs kept away from chemists that are used by the general public.

 

[spring hall convert]

Hope the old bill raid her....when she has a sixteen year old daughter who turns up home smacked up what would she say then ....daft bitch of an mp .I have had to deal with it and it aint pretty .

I'm sorry to hear that but doesn't that further emphasise the point that despite well meaning parental guidance, the current system doesn't work.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

Oh HB&B what a transparently narrow-minded little twit you are. Society is all encompassing you state.

As long as society is how you wish it to be........dare I suggest. If one continues to do the same things in life one gets the same results. The war on drugs has been lost. Utterly. So you advocate taking an even harder line than the one that has not worked.

Therin lies the flaw in your position my intellectually-challenged little Nazi. The fact that people on here will know someone that has been badly or even tragically affected by the effects of drugs and the type of people one has to generally mix in to get access to them is exactly why a new approach is required.

I agree (damn it!) with Simster - this woman can say this because she will never be in a position of authority.....it needs someone, somebody to take a new approach if we are ever to get a balance in this problem.

Now go back outside into your garden and shoot the terrorists, junkies, lesbians and poor people that are undoubtedly clammering at the gates of your mansion.

Twit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I tend to share the view of these very significant and respected people. Further, I understand this is also what Caroline Lucas has also signed up to and which ultimately prompted HBnB's thead:

Asma Jahangir, human rights activist, former
UN Special Rapporteur on Arbitrary, Extrajudicial and Summary Executions, Pakistan

Carlos Fuentes, writer and public intellectual, Mexico

César Gaviria, former President of Colombia

Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico

Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former President of
Brazil (chair)
George Papandreou, Prime Minister of Greece

George P. Shultz, former Secretary of State, United States (honorary chair)

Javier Solana, former European Union High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Spain

John Whitehead, banker and civil servant, chair of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation, United States

Kofi Annan, former Secretary General of the United Nations, Ghana

Louise Arbour, former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, President of the International Crisis Group, Canada

Maria Cattaui, Petroplus Holdings Board member, former Secretary-General of the International Chamber of Commerce, Switzerland

Mario Vargas Llosa, writer and public intellectual, Peru

Marion Caspers-Merk, former State Secretary at the German Federal Ministry of Health

Michel Kazatchkine, executive director of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, France

Paul Volcker, former Chairman of the United States Federal Reserve and of the Economic Recovery Board

Richard Branson, entrepreneur, advocate for social causes, founder of the Virgin Group, co-founder of The Elders, United Kingdom

Ruth Dreifuss, former President of Switzerland and Minister of Home Affairs

Thorvald Stoltenberg, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Norway


Global Commission on Drug Policy

 

[Simster]

I agree (damn it!) with Simster - this woman can say this because she will never be in a position of authority.....it needs someone, somebody to take a new approach if we are ever to get a balance in this problem.

Now go back outside into your garden and shoot the terrorists, junkies, lesbians and poor people that are undoubtedly clammering at the gates of your mansion.

Twit.

I DO like you, Diggers. In fact, I feel almost ASHAMED that I took the piss out of your Scotchness.

One quick point of order though: it's not HIS mansion, it's his wife's.

 

[spring hall convert]

What I really despise about this debate is the knuckleheaded belief that you are either clean, an addict, or about to become an addict. Lucas is merely stating that millions of people in this country break the law every weekend taking drugs recreationally. Most will hold down a decent job, most have no desire to be criminalised and most would have a lot to lose by having a criminal conviction. Hell some even probably voted Conservative! We are talking about millions of decent, respectable citizens, who are not law breakers in any other way. Why do they do it? It must be enjoyment because it hasn't got a great deal else going for it.

It's not an easy debate and it centres around a really difficult philosophical point - To what extent is the state obligated to protect people from themselves and conversely provided the individual is responsible to what extent should the state be able to restrict an indivdual's choice. Intrestingly enough, a natural Conservative would normally veer towards the rights of the indivdual above state interferance.

The addicts here are responsible for a small fraction of the overall drug taking but a large amount of the anti-social behaviour. The question that you should be asking yourself is, Is our money better spent rehabiliting drug addicts or punishing them? Prison doesn't seem to me to be the answer, it sounds like there is a greater access to drugs inside than outside and reoffending rates for addicts released from prison are shocking.

What I will say about the status quo is that undoubtedly there is a demand for drugs, with demand for anything there will come a supply. At present that supply is in the hands of criminals. At present police are obligated to arrest people carrying drugs for their own personal, recreational use - surely their time (that we all pay for) is better spent than this?

Ps - She hasn't ADVOCATED the use of drugs either. I'd suggest you consult a dictionary for confirmation.

 

[The Large One]

What I really despise about this debate is the knuckleheaded belief that you are either clean, an addict, or about to become an addict. Lucas is merely stating that millions of people in this country break the law every weekend taking drugs recreationally. Most will hold down a decent job, most have no desire to be criminalised and most would have a lot to lose by having a criminal conviction. Hell some even probably voted Conservative! We are talking about millions of decent, respectable citizens, who are not law breakers in any other way. Why do they do it? It must be enjoyment because it hasn't got a great deal else going for it.

It's not an easy debate and it centres around a really difficult philosophical point - To what extent is the state obligated to protect people from themselves and conversely provided the individual is responsible to what extent should the state be able to restrict an indivdual's choice. Intrestingly enough, a natural Conservative would normally veer towards the rights of the indivdual above state interferance.

The addicts here are responsible for a small fraction of the overall drug taking but a large amount of the anti-social behaviour. The question that you should be asking yourself is, Is our money better spent rehabiliting drug addicts or punishing them? Prison doesn't seem to me to be the answer, it sounds like there is a greater access to drugs inside than outside and reoffending rates for addicts released from prison are shocking.

What I will say about the status quo is that undoubtedly there is a demand for drugs, with demand for anything there will come a supply. At present that supply is in the hands of criminals. At present police are obligated to arrest people carrying drugs for their own personal, recreational use - surely their time (that we all pay for) is better spent than this?

Ps - She hasn't ADVOCATED the use of drugs either. I'd suggest you consult a dictionary for confirmation.

Sensible post, alas far too complicated for HB&B.

I mean - where in your post does he get to do some colouring in?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Does anyone know if HB&B still only attends the second half of games, I seem to remember him being a bit of a reverse Pornomagboy a few seasons back?
And why did he get sacked this time?

 

[Soul Finger]

I'm still laughing at 'spliffing up'.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Legalise the drugs I say.

BUT on the proviso ALL medical expenses incurred due to drug use are paid by the user, no reimburesements. Also create a legal chanel by which people can sue the arse off anyone on drugs who causes another perosn or their property damage.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I tend to share the view of these very significant and respected people. Further, I understand this is also what Caroline Lucas has also signed up to and which ultimately prompted HBnB's thead:

Asma Jahangir, human rights activist, former
UN Special Rapporteur on Arbitrary, Extrajudicial and Summary Executions, Pakistan

Carlos Fuentes, writer and public intellectual, Mexico

César Gaviria, former President of Colombia

Ernesto Zedillo, former President of Mexico

Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former President of
Brazil (chair)
George Papandreou, Prime Minister of Greece

George P. Shultz, former Secretary of State, United States (honorary chair)

Javier Solana, former European Union High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Spain

John Whitehead, banker and civil servant, chair of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation, United States

Kofi Annan, former Secretary General of the United Nations, Ghana

Louise Arbour, former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, President of the International Crisis Group, Canada

Maria Cattaui, Petroplus Holdings Board member, former Secretary-General of the International Chamber of Commerce, Switzerland

Mario Vargas Llosa, writer and public intellectual, Peru

Marion Caspers-Merk, former State Secretary at the German Federal Ministry of Health

Michel Kazatchkine, executive director of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, France

Paul Volcker, former Chairman of the United States Federal Reserve and of the Economic Recovery Board

Richard Branson, entrepreneur, advocate for social causes, founder of the Virgin Group, co-founder of The Elders, United Kingdom

Ruth Dreifuss, former President of Switzerland and Minister of Home Affairs

Thorvald Stoltenberg, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Norway


Global Commission on Drug Policy

They are probably all the people who won't have to deal with the effects nor live in the neighbourhoods where increased drug use could lead to issues.

Ivory tower types.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can't see much wrong with Lucas's comments.

Broadening the picture, I think she's done the cause of minorty parties a power of good. The message she's sending out is that new parties bring new ideas and new vitality to constituencies and to the House Of Commons.

She's right to take a lead on this in tandem with the police, and has every right to speak with authority as MP of the city with the worst drug death rate in the UK.

This generation of cabinet and shadow cabinet ministers are of that age when most will have tried drugs at some stage so, I'd expect, be more amenable to a proper debate on the subject.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hyacinth has surpassed himself this time. Lucas is only saying what is obvious to anyone with any common sense and it is reflected by the most one sided thread i have seen on NSC in a long time.

I can't wait for his shift to finish so we can see his latest thoughts on this. Or maybe i'll pop down, get a Mcflurry and ask him

 

[bhaexpress]

Of course you know what Ms Lucas real problem is don't you ? She rides a bicycle on the seafront.

 

[The Spanish]

Legalise the drugs I say.

BUT on the proviso ALL medical expenses incurred due to drug use are paid by the user, no reimburesements. Also create a legal chanel by which people can sue the arse off anyone on drugs who causes another perosn or their property damage.

thats brilliant mate look forward to all those cheques flying into the government coffers from britains heroin addicts. i reckon some might have to dip into their savings or investments or even downgrade the car.

without doubt the most bananas post on a thread full of them.