UKIP party conference

[Westdene Seagull]

Like I said, I believe many advocates of right-wing politics are simply selfish ("I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up") or scared ("communism has never worked!")

Then you'd be utterly wrong.

 

[Buzzer]

Hello again Buzzer.

Again, you have neglected (or refused?) to read everything I wrote. My analysis ....

I did read everything you wrote and your analysis stinks.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think you are confused.

UKIP only exists because of the development of the EU, which has happened without the peoples of Europe having a by your leave on the matter.

To accuse UKIP of "veering towards fascism" is absolutely absurd.

It is UKIP that want a referendum on the EU a policy that, by the way, Miliband continues to deny the electorate. This is all the while that very institution legislates about the minutiae of our lives from what light bulbs we can use to how powerful our vacuum cleaners should be; all without any democratic mandate from the UK electorate.

Did you have a vote on enlarging the EU towards Ukraine? Who is making these decisions, and what is their democratic mandate? It seems to me that in opposing the EU, UKIP are actually anti-fascist.

To think its only UKIP that raise this point, and see the EU this way is equally absurd.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/how-to-reduce-eu-democratic-deficit

Fascists my arse.

I'm only confused to the extent that the world is confusing, and interpreting it is difficult. I say that UKIP veer towards fascism, because the history of right-wing populisms (and there are a fair few examples of this in the twentieth century) does so ONCE THEY'VE TAKEN HOLD: this is what their drive is towards.
I don't disagree that there is a democratic deficit at the level of the EU (although I'm not sure that Ukraine is relevant to this), but the era of self-contained nation-states is over, and if the UK chooses to return to it then its demise will be all the swifter than it has been over the past seventy to hundred years. Especially over the past three or four decades, the real power that has advanced is that of finance, and this is global (it always has been: the City of London, since its inception with the founding of the Bank of England, has been global-facing rather than concerned with the UK), but this globality has been greatly accentuated by recent technological developments.
As stated in my previous post, UKIP want to return to a bygone age. This is what characterises right-wing populisms. And it's strange how they bleat on about the loss of sovereignty to the EU, and fail to mention the emergence of other supranational institutions (NATO, the UN, IMF, World Bank, WTO, ICC, etc) and phenomena such as capital. That's probably because the former guarantee the rule of the latter and that, ultimately, this is what Farage the stockbroker and so much of UKIP's funders want.

 

[Buzzer]

I have tried to understand for some time why people become right wing.

I suggest you read the Hayek's 'Road to Serfdom' or anything by Karl Popper. That would be a good start. Or understand why the West won the Cold War - because right-wing, free market economics delivered more freedoms and a more prosperous society than the Soviet socialist republics.

Or indeed try to get your head around the idea that some people have different ideas about how best to make a fairer society and some people just want different things. It doesn't make them selfish, thick or lazy just because they don't share your political point of view. Silly man.

 

[Soulman]

The worst thing to happen to capitalism was the end of communism - because capitalism no longer had to win over the people.

Right-wing politics was great last century, capitalism was the great bringer of wealth, it was perfect... for that time - again, my criticism of right-wing philosophies is that they fear change and social progression. The great problem burdening this world is inequality, which is increasing exponentially, we all know that - yet that is what right-wing politics stands for.

Dear oh dear. Really. Oh well your opinion i suppose.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm only confused to the extent that the world is confusing, and interpreting it is difficult. I say that UKIP veer towards fascism, because the history of right-wing populisms (and there are a fair few examples of this in the twentieth century) does so ONCE THEY'VE TAKEN HOLD: this is what their drive is towards.
I don't disagree that there is a democratic deficit at the level of the EU (although I'm not sure that Ukraine is relevant to this), but the era of self-contained nation-states is over, and if the UK chooses to return to it then its demise will be all the swifter than it has been over the past seventy to hundred years. Especially over the past three or four decades, the real power that has advanced is that of finance, and this is global (it always has been: the City of London, since its inception with the founding of the Bank of England, has been global-facing rather than concerned with the UK), but this globality has been greatly accentuated by recent technological developments.
As stated in my previous post, UKIP want to return to a bygone age. This is what characterises right-wing populisms. And it's strange how they bleat on about the loss of sovereignty to the EU, and fail to mention the emergence of other supranational institutions (NATO, the UN, IMF, World Bank, WTO, ICC, etc) and phenomena such as capital. That's probably because the former guarantee the rule of the latter and that, ultimately, this is what Farage the stockbroker and so much of UKIP's funders want.

UKIP are ultra conservative if anything.......to try and justify your view that their destination would inevitably be fascism because it happened in 1930s Germany is desperate.

I'm glad you understand the democratic deficit in the EU because the decisions they make such as supporting the coup of the democratically elected President in Ukraine, and fomenting the civil war that is currently underway there now is a perfect example of how the institution makes decisions without any democratic mandate from the people. As EU citizens why are we not being consulted on enlargement.........when and where does it stop?

You may well be comfortable with this trend to deny nation states sovereignty, however that is not the pup we are being sold by our politicians.

Your attitude that this is the way the world is and anyone who doesn't agree with it can go f@ck themselves makes you sound like a Tory...........ironically the group of people who we're happy to sell the EU to the people in the 70s on the basis of capitalism.

How times have changed.

 

[Czechmate]

UKIP are ultra conservative if anything.......to try and justify your view that their destination would inevitably be fascism because it happened in 1930s Germany is desperate.

I'm glad you understand the democratic deficit in the EU because the decisions they make such as supporting the coup of the democratically elected President in Ukraine, and fomenting the civil war that is currently underway there now is a perfect example of how the institution makes decisions without any democratic mandate from the people. As EU citizens why are we not being consulted on enlargement.........when and where does it stop?

You may well be comfortable with this trend to deny nation states sovereignty, however that is not the pup we are being sold by our politicians.

Your attitude that this is the way the world is and anyone who doesn't agree with it can go f@ck themselves makes you sound like a Tory...........ironically the group of people who we're happy to sell the EU to the people in the 70s on the basis of capitalism.

How times have changed.

There were many on here who said Ukraine would never be part of the EU for many many years , it seems pretty clear to me they are very close to it now through agreements . Hope they eat their words !

Ah well looks like the coup has worked for the EU and probably the US , I have always wondered and could not think the life of me who instigated the coup , I thought it was the Ukrainians silly me ! There was even a taped phone call asking for Klitshko to take a back seat and not get involved in the mainstream government by the US and look what has happened !

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Another Tory defects to UKIP.

Second Tory MP defects to UKIP http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697

 

[drew]

UKIP are ultra conservative if anything.......to try and justify your view that their destination would inevitably be fascism because it happened in 1930s Germany is desperate.

I'm glad you understand the democratic deficit in the EU because the decisions they make such as supporting the coup of the democratically elected President in Ukraine, and fomenting the civil war that is currently underway there now is a perfect example of how the institution makes decisions without any democratic mandate from the people. As EU citizens why are we not being consulted on enlargement.........when and where does it stop?

You may well be comfortable with this trend to deny nation states sovereignty, however that is not the pup we are being sold by our politicians.

Your attitude that this is the way the world is and anyone who doesn't agree with it can go f@ck themselves makes you sound like a Tory...........ironically the group of people who we're happy to sell the EU to the people in the 70s on the basis of capitalism.

How times have changed.

Hardly surprising that the EU supported the opposition when the elected president unilaterally decided not to sign the agreements with the EU in favour of closer ties with Russia. Surely no pressure was put on him!!! The EU hasn't invaded Ukraine, hasn't sent in troops and certainly hasn't shot down any civilian planes!

 

[Seagull1989]

Another Tory defects to UKIP.

Second Tory MP defects to UKIP http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697

The tide is turning! Possibly two UKIP Mps in parliament before the next General Election

 

[Czechmate]

Hardly surprising that the EU supported the opposition when the elected president unilaterally decided not to sign the agreements with the EU in favour of closer ties with Russia. Surely no pressure was put on him!!! The EU hasn't invaded Ukraine, hasn't sent in troops and certainly hasn't shot down any civilian planes!

Then the parliament should of voted the elected President out with 2/3rd's of the vote , not wait a while until the coup took place then do something about it .

That reminds me whatever happened to the black box recordings of the pilots voice (which the Russians are still asking for) , we were all told the recordings would be available within 24 hours , are the West trying to hide something ?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

where's daveinprague
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

you'll get change under ukip alright. Veering towards fascism

deary me another one running scared of reality
regards
DR

 

[Bry Nylon]

where's daveinprague

In Prague?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

in prague?

regards
DR

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The tide is turning! Possibly two UKIP Mps in parliament before the next General Election

Potentially 3 with by elections coming up and UKIP in a good position to take all three seats.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Potentially 3 with by elections coming up and UKIP in a good position to take all three seats.

isn't it refreshing to get honest talking at a party conference rather than all the American style razzle dazzle bullshit that goes hand in hand with the other three party's
regards
DR

 

[Dave the OAP]

regards
DR

To be fair Das, you did tee up the joke to be thwacked!

 

[Captain Sensible]

This is great. More mental right wing Tory loons defecting. Ukip will take a proportion of the Tory vote and now may take a seat off them. Great news for a Labour victory.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

To be fair Das, you did tee up the joke to be thwacked!

mate don't think i wasn't aware of that , IT WAS JUST TO SIMPLE TO PUT THAT REPLY UP, needs a bit more thought IMHO
regards
DR