UKIP party conference

[El Presidente]

Really hate how they're going to get votes from people thinking 'let's give them a chance, they might shake things up'.

Dunno, worked in Germany in 1933, can't knock the trains being on time can you?

 

[drew]

Why are you posting this fake crap made up by some UKip opposing ****, who made this up on twitter, Who, btw got told to take it down by the police!..


Although the first one should be true if it's referring to fathers getting paid maternity leave, Plain ridiculous!.

Men don't get paid maternity leave!

 

[Ernest]

Dunno, worked in Germany in 1933, can't knock the trains being on time can you?

Didn't know Herr Tubthumper was that old

 

[drew]

Paul Nuttall was on the Daily Politics today and Jo Coburn made him look very stupid and evasive when trying to get him to comment on their tax sums.

 

[yxee]

It always makes me laugh how you regularly hear support for Labour, but you very rarely hear a positive thing said about Ed Milliband. It really was an horrendous choice of leader. Why pick somebody so genuinely difficult to warm to? Surely there must have been better options?

David was a better option, but the unions are more important than the voters

 

[Seagull on the wing]

If their record on MEP's expenses is anything to go by, the last thing we should be doing is let them anywhere near the Westminster system - it's only just been tightened up. I'd expect the first thing Farage would do as PM is award himself a huge pay rise and then make sure his MP's can claim for everything they can get away with.

Oh! Labour and the Tories didn't do that then...they had their noses in the trough before UKIP came into being!

 

[Soulman]

Oh! Labour and the Tories didn't do that then...they had their noses in the trough before UKIP came into being!

.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

David was a better option, but the unions are more important than the voters

He'd have pissed next year's election. But, unless he's remotely interested in returning to pick up the pieces his bird-shit head brother's left behind, would be wise to stay away for a while yet.

 

[looney]

Cant see the runt of the Milliband family leading the rapist enabling party to victory.

 

[Don Quixote]

I don't really care for their policy.

 

[cunning fergus]

You'll get change under UKIP alright. Veering towards fascism

They are making Labour more right wing though right?

It's a political reality that Labour will have to deal with UKIP, and rather than boast of their record on matters like immigration, they have apologised and continue to do so, that is a fact.

And now, they are advocating controls, which are UKIP lite

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/ed-balls-suggests-eu-immigration-curb-to-deal-with-ukip-threat/

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/labou...-immigrants-until-they-have-worked-in-the-uk/

Given these shifts in Labour policy the facts are that Labour strategists are definitely not treating UKIP lightly, otherwise they would be countering UKIP's popularity by stating how successful they were when last in Government, with all the benefits that open borders have provided.

They would also be far more transparent with their policy to get Turkey in the EU............

http://ceftus.org/2012/07/04/message-from-ed-miliband/

Maybe another part of Ed's vision that he forgot to mention last week.

You may continue to play the man and not the ball, but on some matters UKIP have Labour and the Tories running scared.

 

[sir albion]

You really are not goner get any positivity towards ukip from the brighton lefties are you?
UKIP's support will grow and grow and rightly so

 

[Nibble]

The most disturbing thing about UKIP is that the people who have been pursuaded to vote for them would be the worst off under them.

 

[Machiavelli]

They are making Labour more right wing though right?

It's a political reality that Labour will have to deal with UKIP, and rather than boast of their record on matters like immigration, they have apologised and continue to do so, that is a fact.

And now, they are advocating controls, which are UKIP lite

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/ed-balls-suggests-eu-immigration-curb-to-deal-with-ukip-threat/

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/labou...-immigrants-until-they-have-worked-in-the-uk/

Given these shifts in Labour policy the facts are that Labour strategists are definitely not treating UKIP lightly, otherwise they would be countering UKIP's popularity by stating how successful they were when last in Government, with all the benefits that open borders have provided.

They would also be far more transparent with their policy to get Turkey in the EU............

http://ceftus.org/2012/07/04/message-from-ed-miliband/

Maybe another part of Ed's vision that he forgot to mention last week.

You may continue to play the man and not the ball, but on some matters UKIP have Labour and the Tories running scared.

I'm not doubting that UKIP are not proving to be an effective political force, and Farage has wide appeal. I've also indicated on this thread that I wouldn't be surprised if they have between five and ten MPs this time next year. Labour and the Tories are both deeply concerned. Although if you heard Miliband's conference speech, he did take on UKIP, committed to staying in the EU, and sought to align the Tories with UKIP. This all suggests that Labour are not going to dwell on the ground that UKIP want them to be on.

UKIP are clearly a right-wing populist party, and the logic and drive of right-wing populism is to veer towards fascism. Where Farage has been very effective is in claiming that they represent democracy. They couldn't care less about democracy. We've just had a lesson in what democracy is, what it can achieve, and how vital it is from the Scots. This is so far away from what UKIP and Farage have in mind.
What they are are an anti-modern party. Change has been extremely fast-paced of late, and they and their supporters ultimately want to return to the comfort of the nation-state and British empire, unaware that this is no longer viable.

 

[Machiavelli]

Everyone is a lefty deep down. I mean, who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?

I have tried to understand for some time why people become right wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence (eg racism, BNP), greed (got money, want more), fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the left)

I differ from you on this. There's nothing that is 'deep down', whether of the left or right. Saying that there is, is just the same as the right claiming it's human nature to be aggressive, greedy, and so on. Due to wider historical forces, people become attached to certain ideas. All there is is a struggle for a set of ideas to become dominant. And currently neoliberalism is in the ascendancy. But the logic is that this ascendancy is by no means guaranteed, so it could shift.

 

[Buzzer]

Everyone is a lefty deep down. I mean, who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?

I have tried to understand for some time why people become right wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence (eg racism, BNP), greed (got money, want more), fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the left)

Haha! More from the little red book of Comrade Mustafa. "Low intelligence" - I bet you love the feeling that somehow you're intellectually superior. "All men are born equal but I'm so much cleverer than you." It's one way of avoiding having to acknowledge that you simply don't understand why people vote the way they do.

Funny how you weren't saying that the plebs were all thickies before those working-class voters who voted BNP defected from Labour.

That first para of yours. It's a classic!

 

[Buzzer]

My belief is that if you take greed and fear out of the equation, which I agree are attributes of human nature, then any educated and logical person will deduce that right-wing politics is archaic and not appropriate for the modern era.

It would be nice if people could stop being greedy, stop being fearful. Instead of wasting their time with far-right nonsense like UKIP, would focus their efforts on actual political solutions.

If you take human nature out of people's heads they'd reject right-wing politics? Err.....yeah, right. You honestly think this is the way to engage voters? Tell them that they only vote the way they do because they're racist, thick and selfish?

 

[Soulman]

Everyone is a lefty deep down. I mean, who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?

I have tried to understand for some time why people become right wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence (eg racism, BNP), greed (got money, want more), fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the left)

Through your eyes, fairly blinkered really.
I have had many conversations with very left leaning people, the debate normally starts off ok as long as they are repeating their views over and over again. Then you often find that if the left persuasion person gets challenged, they more often than not (as witnessed time and again on NSC) they resort to the cliches like racist , knuckle dragger,xenophobe, bigot etc etc. So who really is of "Low intelligence". Also how is right wing defined, are all those cliches aimed at right wing people, or far right people. I ask because i have answered many surveys and try as i might i have come out of just left of centre.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not doubting that UKIP are not proving to be an effective political force, and Farage has wide appeal. I've also indicated on this thread that I wouldn't be surprised if they have between five and ten MPs this time next year. Labour and the Tories are both deeply concerned. Although if you heard Miliband's conference speech, he did take on UKIP, committed to staying in the EU, and sought to align the Tories with UKIP. This all suggests that Labour are not going to dwell on the ground that UKIP want them to be on.

UKIP are clearly a right-wing populist party, and the logic and drive of right-wing populism is to veer towards fascism. Where Farage has been very effective is in claiming that they represent democracy. They couldn't care less about democracy. We've just had a lesson in what democracy is, what it can achieve, and how vital it is from the Scots. This is so far away from what UKIP and Farage have in mind.
What they are are an anti-modern party. Change has been extremely fast-paced of late, and they and their supporters ultimately want to return to the comfort of the nation-state and British empire, unaware that this is no longer viable.

I think you are confused.

UKIP only exists because of the development of the EU, which has happened without the peoples of Europe having a by your leave on the matter.

To accuse UKIP of "veering towards fascism" is absolutely absurd.

It is UKIP that want a referendum on the EU a policy that, by the way, Miliband continues to deny the electorate. This is all the while that very institution legislates about the minutiae of our lives from what light bulbs we can use to how powerful our vacuum cleaners should be; all without any democratic mandate from the UK electorate.

Did you have a vote on enlarging the EU towards Ukraine? Who is making these decisions, and what is their democratic mandate? It seems to me that in opposing the EU, UKIP are actually anti-fascist.

To think its only UKIP that raise this point, and see the EU this way is equally absurd.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/how-to-reduce-eu-democratic-deficit

Fascists my arse.

 

[Soulman]

If you take human nature out of people's heads they'd reject right-wing politics? Err.....yeah, right. You honestly think this is the way to engage voters? Tell them that they only vote the way they do because they're racist, thick and selfish?

He's intellectually more intelligent....or thinks he is.