UKIP are now a parliamentary party

[Justice]

I'd say anyone who wanted some work done on their house on time, at a fair price and by someone who is competent and takes pride in their work. I know there are good British tradesmen ( such as our [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION]), but there are too many rip off merchants.

If people want protectionism by voting UKIP then fine, but accept the economic consequences that come with it.

You are deluded, I have come across many people who have been ripped off by Poles. Their usual trick is to secure a large deposit for building work and get on the next flight to Poland.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What's missing in this country is a UKIP of the left.

Couldn't the Unions do it? I mean they've been getting sod all on the money they've been chucking at the Labour party for 35 years.

Couldn't the Greens be considered the UKIP of the left ?

 

[spring hall convert]

Couldn't the Greens be considered the UKIP of the left ?

They're pro- Europe!

But yes, they are left of the Labour party. Mind you that's not hard. I actually think the Greens need a rebrand, I think there's a lot of old Labour that if they looked at them, on a policy basis would probably like what they see but are put off by the Greepeace, hippy image of the 80's and 90's.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They're pro- Europe!

But yes, they are left of the Labour party. Mind you that's not hard. I actually think the Greens need a rebrand, I think there's a lot of old Labour that if they looked at them, on a policy basis would probably like what they see but are put off by the Greepeace, hippy image of the 80's and 90's.

Pro-EU they might be but they are offering an in/out vote in their manifesto.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

How?
It exposed Farage as what he is. James O'Brien is better at debate, asks tough questions and has a very good memory to point out all the contradictions in what Farage does, and then says. I'm suprised it wasn't blown into proportion! It got so bad for Farage that one of his spinmen tried to cut the interview short. It seems most Farage admirers have responded to that interview in the same way you have. Blinkered.

Instead of carrying out the interview and asking Farage proper questions on immigration, JOB didn't give him a chance to answer anything. I think the question was why don't you like Romanians. I like JOB, however on this occasion I thought it was a silly question to ask. And whilst I am sure JOB thought he had won that battle, it actually did the reverse. I'm done with interviewers asking silly questions towards UKIP. It's a bit like the question I heard the other day, why would you vote for the leader of UKIP when he wears expensive shoes, seriously.

 

[cunning fergus]

What's missing in this country is a UKIP of the left.

Couldn't the Unions do it? I mean they've been getting sod all on the money they've been chucking at the Labour party for 35 years.

Its not missing, its just not made the same headway as UKIP:

http://www.no2eu.com/

The main unions wont support it because, apart from the RMT, they still see the EU as the means of developing the social change. Bear in mind that back in the 80s when the UK Govt was tory, the Labour party had no way of combatting tory domestic policy, so Labour and the unions turned to the EU as a means to counterbalance Thatcher.

The die was then cast in the 90s with Blair who was willing to engage with the EU in a way the Tories didn't, accordingly he surrendered part of the rebate and made other deals with the Commission to make the EU more popular in the UK.........for example reduction of the CAP was part of that deal.

Here we are nearly 10 years later and we can see the success of that approach.

 

[Captain Sensible]

It would be nice if he actually allowed his interviewees to answer said questions rather than constantly interrupting ( and he does it on almost all his interviews ).

Oh dear how could the poor Mr Farage cope with all these interruptions? I mean its not like any other politician gets interrupted in debate, like (wet drip) Clegg, oh wait?
O'Brien only interrupted him when his answers were politician like by not answering the questions, he wouldn't allow Farage to change the subject when answering a direct question and any contradictions were pointed out, hence the interruptions.
NF met his match and got exposed. NF usually shouts loudest for longest and he didn't get a chance in this debate.

 

[cunning fergus]

Anyone that ever has any doubt, for 1 moment, that Ukip are nothing more than a bunch of far right fools, have a listen to the interview with Farage a few months ago on LBC with James O'Brien. Just because they have an MP now, doesn't mean they have suddenly shaken off all the racist stuff. They have a bit of trouble with that don't they. Ignoring that driving us out of Europe would be a disaster, its the hidden messages in the language used by UKIP and Farage. The Foreigners are always called a 'group of' or a 'bunch of' and they will 'suddenly' move in next door.
Classic!

When you say leaving would be a disaster, is that because you consider staying in will be a sucess?

The introduction of the euro without any central managment has doomed some european economies already; so restricted are they that the only means they have to be comptetive is to reduce wages...........a lot. Now that some of this austerity has taken effect these economies are struggling with falling consumer demand and are entering the initial stages of deflation. Italy is even worse and is in stagflation despite reducing its national working conditions to dust.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/italy-to-remain-in-recession-this-year-says-imf-1411052486

In order to salvage the euro these economies will have to completely surrender their fiscal sovereignty and hand control to unelected techoncrats and.............ze Germans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/us-ecb-policy-weidmann-idUSKCN0I21NK20141013

This is not hsyterical tubthumping because this is the reality on the ground now, however if this situation is seen as a credible benchmark of "sucess" then show me the door.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Instead of carrying out the interview and asking Farage proper questions on immigration, JOB didn't give him a chance to answer anything. I think the question was why don't you like Romanians. I like JOB, however on this occasion I thought it was a silly question to ask. And whilst I am sure JOB thought he had won that battle, it actually did the reverse. I'm done with interviewers asking silly questions towards UKIP. It's a bit like the question I heard the other day, why would you vote for the leader of UKIP when he wears expensive shoes, seriously.

They were proper questions. Awkward questions. NF said he doesn't want a 'group of Romanian men' 'Suddenly moving in next door' and then in the next sentence started talking about people trafficking. Its the type of language he used that exposed him. The parts when JOB puts it to NF that he is no different from the other party politicians and that he has many many friends in the media and despite managing to successfully bill himself as an outsider and a man that tells it like it is, he is in fact no different but worse than most, was superb.
As I said before, Ukip now have an MP, Farage can not now hide behind the fact that he is spearheading some sort of relvolution (far right based imo), his part now have the general public to serve on a large level and questions the other 3 political parties have to face will be the same for ukip. I'm sorry but when questioned about who is in his party, the company they keep and their racist gaffs, Farage saying 'why don't you ask the other parties these questions', just won't cut it.

 

[Captain Sensible]

When you say leaving would be a disaster, is that because you consider staying in will be a sucess?

The introduction of the euro without any central managment has doomed some european economies already; so restricted are they that the only means they have to be comptetive is to reduce wages...........a lot. Now that some of this austerity has taken effect these economies are struggling with falling consumer demand and are entering the initial stages of deflation. Italy is even worse and is in stagflation despite reducing its national working conditions to dust.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/italy-to-remain-in-recession-this-year-says-imf-1411052486

In order to salvage the euro these economies will have to completely surrender their fiscal sovereignty and hand control to unelected techoncrats and.............ze Germans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/us-ecb-policy-weidmann-idUSKCN0I21NK20141013

This is not hsyterical tubthumping because this is the reality on the ground now, however if this situation is seen as a credible benchmark of "sucess" then show me the door.

My post was about Farage himself, as I said 'Ignoring the fact...' ment I was not discussing this point. it is my opinion that leaving the EU would be a disaster.

 

[cunning fergus]

What's missing in this country is a UKIP of the left.

Couldn't the Unions do it? I mean they've been getting sod all on the money they've been chucking at the Labour party for 35 years.

By the way, who said this today about regulating the UK labour market?

“What I am talking about is managing our labour market in a way that people see as fair. I do think there are some big and difficult issues here about how you manage a union of 28. You cannot bury your head in the sand and say you can have a union of 28 countries and say you will have movement of people that is free and unfettered any more that you can have a market where goods flows freely without proper rules of the game or free movement of capital without that being sound and regulated.”

 

[spring hall convert]

By the way, who said this today about regulating the UK labour market?

“What I am talking about is managing our labour market in a way that people see as fair. I do think there are some big and difficult issues here about how you manage a union of 28. You cannot bury your head in the sand and say you can have a union of 28 countries and say you will have movement of people that is free and unfettered any more that you can have a market where goods flows freely without proper rules of the game or free movement of capital without that being sound and regulated.”

Ed Balls. Nowhere have I doubted that UKIP are having a major impact on political thought in this country.

The further we've gone in this thread, the more I've realised that you're pretty well versed here and you have legitimate points to make. I've gone off the idea of debating them with you because you are hyperbolic and unnecessarily confrontational.

Again, the way you structure this post is another example of the latter.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Oh dear how could the poor Mr Farage cope with all these interruptions? I mean its not like any other politician gets interrupted in debate, like (wet drip) Clegg, oh wait?
O'Brien only interrupted him when his answers were politician like by not answering the questions, he wouldn't allow Farage to change the subject when answering a direct question and any contradictions were pointed out, hence the interruptions.
NF met his match and got exposed. NF usually shouts loudest for longest and he didn't get a chance in this debate.

You missed the part of my post that was in brackets ! Basically the bloke likes the sound of his own voice and doesn't let ANYONE answer the questions.

 

[Captain Sensible]

You missed the part of my post that was in brackets ! Basically the bloke likes the sound of his own voice and doesn't let ANYONE answer the questions.

You could be talking about Farage there.

FWIW i think all politicians should be interviewed in this way, if they don't answer the questions and skirt around the issues or counter accuse instead of answering, they should be interrupted and reminded of the initial questions.
I find it so frustrating on Question time on BBC where a decent question get skirted around unchallenged. I hope O'brien interviews all the leaders before the election.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You could be talking about Farage there.

I could be but I'm not. O'Brein clearly thinks of himself of as a Paxman style interviewer and all the videos I've watched of his interviews he's an interrupting fool who knows little of his subject matter. I guess that's why he's on local radio and not really worth listening to.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I could be but I'm not. O'Brein clearly thinks of himself of as a Paxman style interviewer and all the videos I've watched of his interviews he's an interrupting fool who knows little of his subject matter. I guess that's why he's on local radio and not really worth listening to.

But he did have a lot of subject matter, far too much for NF. I find Paxman in the Kay Burley mold, that just keep asking why and when and don't have a lot of subject matter with which to counter any claims. Clearly after being one of the few interviewers that can give Farage a hard time, I think he'll be in high demand in the lead up to the election. As O'Brien pointed out, Farage has been on question time more than most and I haven't seen him challenged like that.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But he did have a lot of subject matter,

OK, to paraphrase "I don't know anything about running a business" when he was challenging NF about some business that HMRC ( which O'Brein kept calling the Inland Revenue which doesn't actually exist ) had applied a winding up order for. He clearly doesn't know what a company secretary does or what their responsibilities are or even what a winding up order involves and yet he banged on about it like an utter fool.

That's just one example of how unintelligent O'Brein is.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I have always been a supporter of the EU.

However it's clear that the present borders to the East are only just about sustainable (the Mediterranean makes it all too easy for illegals to get from Turkey into Greece as well as the hop from North Africa to Italy/Malta, let alone the amazing continued existence of mainland Spain in two Moroccan enclaves (Ceuta and Melilla.) Then you have all the Metoplitan outposts of France.

How on earth any further enlargement t incorporate Turkey or Ukraine (for starters) could ever be envisaged in the next say 20 years staggers me. In that sense I have doubts over the credibility of EU policy of free movement.

How

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I have always been a supporter of the EU.

However it's clear that the present borders to the East are only just about sustainable (the Mediterranean makes it all too easy for illegals to get from Turkey into Greece as well as the hop from North Africa to Italy/Malta, let alone the amazing continued existence of mainland Spain in two Moroccan enclaves (Ceuta and Melilla.) Then you have all the Metoplitan outposts of France.

How on earth any further enlargement t incorporate Turkey or Ukraine (for starters) could ever be envisaged in the next say 20 years staggers me. In that sense I have doubts over the credibility of EU policy of free movement.

How

That's the problem with this whole stupid borders system. Not enough you have free movement, you have the issue of illegal immigration, and to talk about enlarging the EU even further is just crackers.

We need a proper managed immigration system in this country now. We need a system where we only take the people where there is the need. For example teachers, doctors, nurses, but not only that, these people will contribute a hell of a lot in to the system because of the money they earn. We must however make things like teaching and nursing affordable for people to study again in this country, because I think it has been a disgrace how the governments have let it get so bad that we need to recruit from overseas in the first place.

I certainly don't see the need however for hundreds of thousands of unskilled people coming to the UK, only to end up in minimum wage jobs and then is some cases having to fall back on the benefits system for things like in work benefits, what's the point in it. Why has it taken politicians to understand this part.

It should be in every single case that you contribute to the system for a minimum of 3-5 years before you can claim any benefits and things like the NHS you pay for.
If the NHS is one of the finest systems in the world, why are we giving it away. Premium service compared to other countries I bet.

 

[Captain Sensible]

OK, to paraphrase "I don't know anything about running a business" when he was challenging NF about some business that HMRC ( which O'Brein kept calling the Inland Revenue which doesn't actually exist ) had applied a winding up order for. He clearly doesn't know what a company secretary does or what their responsibilities are or even what a winding up order involves and yet he banged on about it like an utter fool.

That's just one example of how unintelligent O'Brein is.

Why are you picking on one tiny snippet and missing the point. The point JOB was illustrating the NF is no ordinary Joe and man of the people, and that he is a city businessman that has fingers in many pies. So there is a winding up order and Farage resigns just after. He also says he was doing a favour off a friend. Do ME a favour more like!

I understand that you may not like O'Brien for whatever reason but Farage said what he said. Full of contradictions, hypocrisy and far right bigotry. When pushed into a corner on his part, his persona changes and sums up his party beautifully.