UK net migration hits record high

[Thunder Bolt]

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I'm the Brighton Donation Drop Point for Calais Action. We are a voluntary grassroots movement, moved by the plight of the refugees (and frustrated by our governments lack of humanitarian response), so we have decided to take action! There will be a convoy of us from all over the UK doing a run of supplies to the camp on 16th September.

Please check the poster for the list of things that are needed. The DROP OFF ADDRESS IS:
4 Sherrington Road, Woodingdean, BN2 6QJ

A BIG THANK YOU to Kathryn Joyce, who owns the Fountainhead Pub, North Road in the North Laines, who has very kindly offered her storage room as a secondary donation drop location!

Ideal time to drop off is BEFORE the pub opens - so between 10.30am - midday.

And also to Viv English who is co-ordinating a Lewes based secondary drop point at the Lansdown Arms pub, until FRIDAY 11th.

Donations can also be given via JustGiving
https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/calaisaction

 

[Hastings gull]

this is what it boils down to, all the rest is just muddying the waters as weak excuse for inaction.

The fact is there are millions of people world wide in desperate need of help. When people need help you help them it really is as simple as that. All the rest is just making excuses to stop yourself feeling bad about the shit you are watching on the news. They are terrorists, they are illegal, they are queue jumpers, country shoppers all just labels to dehumanise people so one can sleep at night while pushing the problem onto someone else.

While my grandfather was filled with pride but what he and other did during the second world war I will be feel nothing but shame when my grand children ask me about what we didn't do during this crisis.

Its not about politics its is about helping people in need.

This is far too simplistic, as you well know. Of course these people need help, and I have said several times, that Europe will probably will take the ones we have now, as there is little alternative. People are not making excuses to make themselves better; they are simply being rather more realistic than you. The comparison with your granddad is utterly irrelevant - so did my dad in the Desert War against Rommel (can't mention my mum -she always said that she was on the other side!) -what possible use is this to the present debate.
The fact is that for most folk in the UK, the future of mass immigration is worrying. Though it is swept under the carpet, there is a gradual simmering of, if not discontent, certainly an element of "separateness" Having even more will only increase this divide. Muslim extremism is slowly growing and it is clear that racial discrimination is not a thing of the past, though perhaps thankfully not as naked as say 50 years ago. The country will inevitably find it harder to cope, infrastructure-wise, and the millions of immigrants here will not find it easy to fulfil their dream, thus increasing their frustrations and consequent suspicions that they are second class citizens. Precisely this was mooted as one of the reasons for the radicalisation of the two fanatics who murdered the publishers in France. For the record, yes, Europe will take the numbers we have in the continent, but after that a clear and unequivocal message is sent that the military will step in, and return all immigrants. There will be heart-rending scenes, certainly initially, but if the message gets through, then hopefully the boats will not set sail nearly to the same extent. Sad, but would you bet against it. People going to Munich station to hand out blankets are not going to want to take blankets every year for the next 20 years, say, once the novelty wears off and the likelihood of civil strife increases, if it had not already been evident.

This has to stop, if by force, then need be. Perhaps your grandchildren, watching scenes of disorder in European cities, might ask why you let such numbers in when you had been warned.

 

[alfredmizen]

Why should the privileged that get a place on a boat be helped without question whilst other poor souls throughout the continent of Africa for example should be left with comparatively no help whatsoever, should we scoop them up as well, if not why not ??

I am just trying to fathom your humanitarian threshold here, do you need to be well dressed, well fed, full voiced chanting outside a European train station to receive your proposed support ??

True, look at all the women and children at Budapest Railway Station

 

[Sweeney Todd]

The intended destination of the migrants – all of them, including those at Calais – suggests that they are not simply asylum-seekers. They do not want sanctuary in the EU per se. They want sanctuary in the rich parts of the EU. That makes them economic migrants, not asylum-seekers.

Why is the UK being singled out for criticism, when countries like Slovakia, Poland and Hungary have said that they will not take any Muslim migrants and/or asylum-seekers? Imagine the outcry if David Cameron had spoken in such terms.

How do we know that there are not Islamic State (IS) militants hiding among the exodus from the Middle East? In any case, for IS, hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugees infiltrating Europe is an agreeable by-product of their campaign of destruction in Iraq and Syria. Conquest is on IS’s agenda and overwhelming Europe with Muslim people is part of their strategy to achieve it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

True, look at all the women and children at Budapest Railway Station

One photo can be made to appear that way, but having watched the news in the last few days, there are many many women, and children at Budapest station.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Copied from Facebook


I'm the Brighton Donation Drop Point for Calais Action. We are a voluntary grassroots movement, moved by the plight of the refugees (and frustrated by our governments lack of humanitarian response), so we have decided to take action! There will be a convoy of us from all over the UK doing a run of supplies to the camp on 16th September.

Please check the poster for the list of things that are needed. The DROP OFF ADDRESS IS:
4 Sherrington Road, Woodingdean, BN2 6QJ

A BIG THANK YOU to Kathryn Joyce, who owns the Fountainhead Pub, North Road in the North Laines, who has very kindly offered her storage room as a secondary donation drop location!

Ideal time to drop off is BEFORE the pub opens - so between 10.30am - midday.

And also to Viv English who is co-ordinating a Lewes based secondary drop point at the Lansdown Arms pub, until FRIDAY 11th.

Donations can also be given via JustGiving
https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/calaisaction

 

[Hastings gull]

I have already offered accommodation on some of my land. It is however not quite as simple as just inviting people onto the place. As, quite rightly processes have to be gone through so we can keep track ,where possible ,of who is coming in.

Hm, I wonder. All rather vague. How very convenient. But given that immigration has been around for for many years, this would seem to be taking one hell of a time.

 

[Surf's Up]

As an aside I now appear to have a group of refugees living in the children's play ground opposite my apartment.

Well Frau Merkel's stance on this issue is likely to lead to them living IN your apartment soon!!

 

[Hastings gull]

One photo can be made to appear that way, but having watched the news in the last few days, there are many many women, and children at Budapest station.

Of course. the photo in question would not seem to indicate a scene of desperate poverty, and you are right in that there are women and kids at the said station. But the argument is also true in reverse - the media, ever with an eye open for the dramatic, will always concentrate on this and this too can give a false impression.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well Frau Merkel's stance on this issue is likely to lead to them living IN your apartment soon!!

Germany doesn't need a stance from their leader. They are being generous anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-for-refugees-arriving-by-train-10481522.html

 

[Nibble]

 

[BigGully]

Germany doesn't need a stance from their leader. They are being generous anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-for-refugees-arriving-by-train-10481522.html

Oh come on, it only takes a thousand people to look generous or threatening, take your pick, it doesnt follow that it reflects the mood of the nation.

 

[Nibble]

Hm, I wonder. All rather vague. How very convenient. But given that immigration has been around for for many years, this would seem to be taking one hell of a time.

So I'm asked what I'M doing and would I want them anywhere near me. I tell you and the response is basically calling me a liar. There's not a lot one can do against such reasoned arguments is there!

 

[alfredmizen]

One photo can be made to appear that way, but having watched the news in the last few days, there are many many women, and children at Budapest station.

Last time i looked Hungary wasnt a war zone either, neither was France , so why are the ones in Budapest desperate to get to Germany and the ones in Calais so desperate to get here ??

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Of course. the photo in question would not seem to indicate a scene of desperate poverty, and you are right in that there are women and kids at the said station. But the argument is also true in reverse - the media, ever with an eye open for the dramatic, will always concentrate on this and this too can give a false impression.

I think we need to ask the question as to why the majority of these travellers are men. They must be leaving for economic reasons. If it's as bad as we are being told, why would you leave your family behind in possible danger.
This is hampering efforts for anybody to make sound judgement on the validity of these people.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This is far too simplistic, as you well know. Of course these people need help, and I have said several times, that Europe will probably will take the ones we have now, as there is little alternative. People are not making excuses to make themselves better; they are simply being rather more realistic than you. The comparison with your granddad is utterly irrelevant - so did my dad in the Desert War against Rommel (can't mention my mum -she always said that she was on the other side!) -what possible use is this to the present debate.
The fact is that for most folk in the UK, the future of mass immigration is worrying. Though it is swept under the carpet, there is a gradual simmering of, if not discontent, certainly an element of "separateness" Having even more will only increase this divide. Muslim extremism is slowly growing and it is clear that racial discrimination is not a thing of the past, though perhaps thankfully not as naked as say 50 years ago. The country will inevitably find it harder to cope, infrastructure-wise, and the millions of immigrants here will not find it easy to fulfil their dream, thus increasing their frustrations and consequent suspicions that they are second class citizens. Precisely this was mooted as one of the reasons for the radicalisation of the two fanatics who murdered the publishers in France. For the record, yes, Europe will take the numbers we have in the continent, but after that a clear and unequivocal message is sent that the military will step in, and return all immigrants. There will be heart-rending scenes, certainly initially, but if the message gets through, then hopefully the boats will not set sail nearly to the same extent. Sad, but would you bet against it. People going to Munich station to hand out blankets are not going to want to take blankets every year for the next 20 years, say, once the novelty wears off and the likelihood of civil strife increases, if it had not already been evident.

This has to stop, if by force, then need be. Perhaps your grandchildren, watching scenes of disorder in European cities, might ask why you let such numbers in when you had been warned.

Or they will ask you, quite simply, why didn't you do anything to help grandad? Why could you not see the difference between an economic migrant and a refugee?

I know how I look on my grandad on such matters, and it mainly borders on mainly making excuses for 'his generation' or general disgust at his ingrained prejudices. I sincerely hope my children's kids don't view me the same way.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Last time i looked Hungary wasnt a war zone either, neither was France , so why are the ones in Budapest desperate to get to Germany and the ones in Calais so desperate to get here ??

A lot of them can speak English which makes it easier to find jobs in both countries. Also Germany & England grant more asylum than other countries.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

Oh come on, it only takes a thousand people to look generous or threatening, take your pick, it doesnt follow that it reflects the mood of the nation.

I can't speak for everyone but what I can say is there is a very clear, very obvious, very visible and very tangible offering from people in Berlin.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

A lot of them can speak English which makes it easier to find jobs in both countries. Also Germany & England grant more asylum than other countries.

This.

 

[BadFish]

I think we need to ask the question as to why the majority of these travellers are men. They must be leaving for economic reasons. If it's as bad as we are being told, why would you leave your family behind in possible danger.
This is hampering efforts for anybody to make sound judgement on the validity of these people.

I have spoken to a number of Asylum Seekers who decided to leave their country without their wives and children. This was partly because the journey was so dangerous and if they were caught trying to flee they would have been killed and partly for economic reasons as their journey by boat was so expensive that it was only an option for one family member to go. The idea was that once they found somewhere safe to settle they would be able to bring their family over at a later date. One fella had been out of detention for 6 months or so (after being locked up for two years) and was struggling to locate his wife and kids. As I understand it these types of scenarios are pretty common.