UK net migration hits record high

[gregbrighton]

I found this interesting, it offers us an insight into the scale of the migrant crisis, and the global catastrophe of the Syrian war.

Jordan has a population of 6 million, but has taken in 1.5 million refugees

If this refugee camp was considered a city, it would be the fourth largest city in Jordan:

It's a terrible image of people being displaced because of war. I am thankful for the volunteers and agency workers who are assisting these desperate people made homeless through no fault of their own.

 

[W.C.]

How come the onus is continually on Europe to accommodate 100% of the refugees?

Why can't Australia, NZ, Canada, USA, Russia, Japan, South Africa, Brazil etc step up and offer refuge?

It should very much be a world wide effort definitely.

 

[W.C.]

No i'm not.

Yes you are.

 

[Soulman]

How come the onus is continually on Europe to accommodate 100% of the refugees?

Why can't Australia, NZ, Canada, USA, Russia, Japan, South Africa, Brazil etc step up and offer refuge?

 

[W.C.]

Pathetic.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Another pleasant post when you don't like to read something. Somehow your posts don't measure up to the lovely caring person you otherwise claim to be. Me? What about 35 years in education, 25 of which were spent on the pastoral side helping hundreds of kids, some of whom were thoroughly underserving of the countless hours spent on them. And of course the mum in our house with moderate Alzheimers who no one else in the family wanted. And a German citation for inter communal work. Since you do ask.
You see, my friend, because other folk are wary as to the possible consequences of uncontrolled immigration, it does not mean that they lack humanity, compassion etc etc. and it is intensely irritating when one is accused of a lack of compassion by folk who themselves have no real intention to go out of their way to help, but just use the relative anonymity of the internet to make themselves look good. You do help, so you say, so good on you, but please don't assume that if someone points out the dangers of uncontrolled immigration, they lack this and that. You did not answer my question, by the way, which shows that you are in fact aware.

You should have mentioned you're wary of uncontrolled migration before!

 

[pastafarian]

HT,here's an article from Berlin, from the good old BBC, TODAY.

"'Im in Berlin reporting for Newsnight at the moment on the crisis engulfing Europe. Here are a few of the wider issues I think it's worth reflecting on.
People Are Seeking a Better Life
Arguments about names - "migrant" versus "refugee" for example - ignore the complexity of many peoples' motivation.

Speaking to Faris, a Syrian from Aleppo, at the Berlin refugee reception centre, it's clear that he is escaping a vicious war.

But when I asked him what he would think about a European Union quota system that might require him to move on to Poland or the UK he insisted, "I want to stay in Germany," adding this was because of the quality of education available. As soon as he's settled, Faris intends to send for his wife and children.

The current argument within the EU about the so-called "Dublin 2" rules takes us back though to the distinction between asylum seekers (or refugees in this context) and others.
The rules dictate that people fleeing persecution or war seek asylum in the first EU country they get to. In the current crisis, this would most often be Greece or Italy, but it's clear that many have no intention of settling there.
By the simple definitions of the Dublin 2 rules, there's not much debate - those who end up in places like the Berlin refugee centre are migrants since they have crossed through a number of other EU countries to get there. The search for a better life starts with physical security - but for a great many it is also tied to questions of opportunity.
Another recurrent argument concerns the degree to which European countries are responsible for creating this crisis. There is clearly a case to answer in the matter of Nato's overthrow of Colonel Gaddafi's Libyan government, which removed the obstacles to people crossing the Mediterranean from there.

That said, this culpability is largely irrelevant to the other (and bigger) migration route through Turkey and the Balkans to Germany, Austria and Sweden.

Some chose to blame the West for not intervening (producing the largest single flow of refugees, that from Syria), others for intervening (in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya).

In the case of some of the other large contingents in the current crisis (Eritreans, or Nigerians for example) the issue of Western intervention or non-intervention is largely irrelevant.

Politicians and experts talk about the "push" and "pull" factors in these movements of people. War or abject misery pushes, opportunity in western countries provides the pull. There are other pulls too. Mohammed, a Syrian I met in a Turkish camp several months ago told he would try to get to Britain - because he had a brother already in Scotland.
In some countries (including Greece and Serbia) the governments appear to have decided that so long as they remain slick, and refugees simply slide through them, these flows need not be a huge problem. In fact they can present a modest earning opportunity for the local economy. Providers of food, lodging, and transport are all gaining - as well as the people smugglers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34158660

Probably a good time for some stats.

Contrary to popular belief, in the first quarter of 2015 the most first time Asylum applicants in the EU came from Kosovo and not Syria. The media keeps mentioning Eritrea, Libya and Somalia also as large contingents when this is not relatively the case.

The biggest influxes of new asylum applicants to The EU were

1st - Kosovo 26% of all new Asylum applications
2nd - Syria 16% of all new Asylum applications
3rd - Afghanistan 7% of all new Asylum applications
4th - Albania 4% of all new Asylum applications
5th - Iraq 4% of all new Asylum applications
6th - Serbia 3% of all new Asylum applications
7th - Pakistan 3% of all new Asylum applications
8th - Ukraine 3% of all new Asylum applications
9th - Nigeria 2% of all new Asylum applications
10th - Somalia 2% of all new Asylum applications

I suspect the Syrian portion will rise dramatically in the 2nd quarter after Merkels gaffe to encourage Syrians to make their way to Germany.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6887997/3-18062015-CP-EN.pdf

Kosovans currently have 99% of their processed applications for asylum rejected.And more Kosovans went to Germany than anyone else in that period on the back of no borders.Im not surprised Merkel is struggling to cope and demanding everyone else should start processing more asylum seekers.

EDIT replace "Merkels Gaffe" with daft ill-conceived plan

 

[alfredmizen]

Pathetic.

Why dont you share your wisdom on why its pathetic ? Its an inconvenient truth morelike.....

 

[Buzzer]

I found this interesting, it offers us an insight into the scale of the migrant crisis, and the global catastrophe of the Syrian war.

I'm going to agree with you here Mustafa, it should help put current things into perspective a little. Another example was Tanzania during the Rwandan genocide took over half a million people and it was and remains one of the poorest countries on Earth. Burundi, with a population of 10 million took a quarter of a million refugees. Christ knows how that worked. However, what differs with Jordan, Burundi and Tanzania from the current situation is that none of the European countries can create these camps and neither should they either. If we are going to take them then they need provide proper housing and we need them to stop risking theirs and their families' lives by chancing it across the Med. Anti-Slavery International, an organisation that I get involved with say that human trafficking is now a bigger money generator than drugs trafficking. I fear that the German-led approach will lead to many more drownings. I agree with Dan Hannan, Conservative MEP who says that Europe should insist on taking refugees only from the refugee camps and we need a military response to ISIS and soon. We also need global help to house people. It's time for the Arab League to step up to the plate.

I hope that if people are donating to these charities that they please, please, please make a reciprocal donation to help the homeless and worst-off here n the UK too.

Here's a few that people might like to consider:
http://www.soldiersoffthestreet.org/ charity helping ex-servicemen who are on the streets
www.shelter.org.uk/ we all know this one
http://www.unlock.org.uk/ charity helping ex-convicts who are at rock bottom to turn their lives round
http://stonepillow.org.uk/ Sussex homeless charity.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

Ah the old you play ball now and things will be rosier for you later chestnut.........the way EU member states have shockingly reneged on the schengen and dublin agreements during this whole mass migration debacle for months would make me think they cant be trusted to keep any agreement ever

Burnham is a fool if he believes this

That's your opinion. But from my experiences in life and especially work, negotiation is a lot easier if you engage as opposed to shout down a megaphone.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

Another pleasant post when you don't like to read something. Somehow your posts don't measure up to the lovely caring person you otherwise claim to be. Me? What about 35 years in education, 25 of which were spent on the pastoral side helping hundreds of kids, some of whom were thoroughly underserving of the countless hours spent on them. And of course the mum in our house with moderate Alzheimers who no one else in the family wanted. And a German citation for inter communal work. Since you do ask.
You see, my friend, because other folk are wary as to the possible consequences of uncontrolled immigration, it does not mean that they lack humanity, compassion etc etc. and it is intensely irritating when one is accused of a lack of compassion by folk who themselves have no real intention to go out of their way to help, but just use the relative anonymity of the internet to make themselves look good. You do help, so you say, so good on you, but please don't assume that if someone points out the dangers of uncontrolled immigration, they lack this and that. You did not answer my question, by the way, which shows that you are in fact aware.

So, you defend criticising someone for blowing their own trumpet by blowing your own trumpet. Genius

 

[gregbrighton]

Guardian news live updates:

Amit Sandhu has spoken to Tom Radcliffe, who helped set up a crowdfund for his Help Calais campaign hoping to reach £1,000. Radcliffe said within days the campaign went “bananas” and he has now raised more than £47,000.
The 49 year-old acting teacher from Kent is now staying up late organising the distribution of the money and getting up in the early hours of the morning to move supplies, sandwiching his day job in between. He said the campaign really picked up this week as people started realising what was actually happening in Europe.

"The press changed suddenly - they realised these weren’t economic migrants they are refugees.
I think that was when families started realising what was really happening.
People realised that the stuff they were being fed about Calais was nonsense.
My friend who’s a builder who voted Ukip has completely changed his mind.
Two weeks ago he was saying we should send the army out and now he is going to drive to Europe in his truck and help build shelters.
Something has changed in the country at large."

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

HT,here's an article from Berlin, from the good old BBC, TODAY.

"'Im in Berlin reporting for Newsnight at the moment on the crisis engulfing Europe. Here are a few of the wider issues I think it's worth reflecting on.
People Are Seeking a Better Life
Arguments about names - "migrant" versus "refugee" for example - ignore the complexity of many peoples' motivation.

Speaking to Faris, a Syrian from Aleppo, at the Berlin refugee reception centre, it's clear that he is escaping a vicious war.

But when I asked him what he would think about a European Union quota system that might require him to move on to Poland or the UK he insisted, "I want to stay in Germany," adding this was because of the quality of education available. As soon as he's settled, Faris intends to send for his wife and children.

The current argument within the EU about the so-called "Dublin 2" rules takes us back though to the distinction between asylum seekers (or refugees in this context) and others.
The rules dictate that people fleeing persecution or war seek asylum in the first EU country they get to. In the current crisis, this would most often be Greece or Italy, but it's clear that many have no intention of settling there.
By the simple definitions of the Dublin 2 rules, there's not much debate - those who end up in places like the Berlin refugee centre are migrants since they have crossed through a number of other EU countries to get there. The search for a better life starts with physical security - but for a great many it is also tied to questions of opportunity.
Another recurrent argument concerns the degree to which European countries are responsible for creating this crisis. There is clearly a case to answer in the matter of Nato's overthrow of Colonel Gaddafi's Libyan government, which removed the obstacles to people crossing the Mediterranean from there.

That said, this culpability is largely irrelevant to the other (and bigger) migration route through Turkey and the Balkans to Germany, Austria and Sweden.

Some chose to blame the West for not intervening (producing the largest single flow of refugees, that from Syria), others for intervening (in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya).

In the case of some of the other large contingents in the current crisis (Eritreans, or Nigerians for example) the issue of Western intervention or non-intervention is largely irrelevant.

Politicians and experts talk about the "push" and "pull" factors in these movements of people. War or abject misery pushes, opportunity in western countries provides the pull. There are other pulls too. Mohammed, a Syrian I met in a Turkish camp several months ago told he would try to get to Britain - because he had a brother already in Scotland.
In some countries (including Greece and Serbia) the governments appear to have decided that so long as they remain slick, and refugees simply slide through them, these flows need not be a huge problem. In fact they can present a modest earning opportunity for the local economy. Providers of food, lodging, and transport are all gaining - as well as the people smugglers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34158660

And your point is?

 

[Bold Seagull]

The big thing for Germany and the EU is an ever increasing retired population without the support of an increasing working population. Growing economies need people, it is a simple fact. Your economy doesn't grow from a population that isn't, and certainly one that is increasing its aging dependents.

It's not a gaffe by Merkel, under the compassionate gesture, she will look to be gaining a young and in some cases a fully trained addition to the work force.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Just a brief aside, as I have been away for a while: why is Herr Tubthumber now Pork Knuckle Pete?

 

[Buzzer]

Guardian news

A group of friends have set up a fundraiser “to give the displaced people stuck at Calais a break”. They will be raising money and delivering essential daily items on 10 October. You can donate money to them here

I'd have more time for your views if you didn't try to conflate the problems in Calais with those in Syria. I don't think anyone is in any doubt that those at Calais trying to enter the UK are doing so for economic reasons. Encouraging immigrants as you are doing to head for Calais is the very worst approach. It just means more deaths in lorries and planes and more money for the traffickers.

 

[alfredmizen]

Can you let me know why, if there are as many women and children as you claim, some of items listed as Not needed in the poster, in bold orange capitals are women and childrens clothes ??

 

[East Preston Gull]

In World War 2 as conscription was about to be passed, the intelligent men joined up early to an elite unit to enhance their chance of survival, whilst the others were put in to the Canon fodder battalions.

Germany and Sweden have gone early in the wide open arms move to take the Syrian middle classes and educated youngsters who have been able to afford to get to Europe. The real refugees are stuck in the camps in the north African coastal areas and Turkey.

Cameron is right to want to aid these people first and not take the middle classes who have left their countrymen to rot and have used this crisis to avoid the usual channels of moving country!

 

[W.C.]

Why dont you share your wisdom on why its pathetic ? Its an inconvenient truth morelike.....

It's a stupid meme. What with the scale of the crisis and what these refugees are fleeing from, I'd say it's pathetic.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart

 

[pastafarian]

"The press changed suddenly - they realised these weren’t economic migrants they are refugees.
I think that was when families started realising what was really happening.
People realised that the stuff they were being fed about Calais was nonsense.

As i pointed out earlier,very soon with regard to the new facility near Calais the migrants currently at the jungle will have the opportunity to prove us all wrong and show they are not economic migrants when they register en mass for asylum, and try and gain refugee status in France.

shall i hold my breath?