UK net migration hits record high

[cunning fergus]

I am a Polar opposite to you CF in our views on the EU and the UK's membership of it. I think we belong firmly in it. But your point is a very valid one. As I said in my post above. If we are to take in thousands refugees, we are shunning our own populous that are on or below the poverty line. Austerity, shortage of housing and over populated cities, the help for our own poor will dilute further.

No doubt, but then for those who consider the EU project and its institutions worthwhile, I think that this crisis, just like the euro crisis demonstrates that the whole structure is built on sand.

In the context of this problem, tragic as it is, there is not a unified response across the EU because the individual national Govts won't be able to sell the consequences of a unified response to their respective populations, Slovenia and Hungary demonstrating this in uncertain terms.

For the UK Cameron has already failed to get migration down to the tens of thousands, despite his no ifs, no buts..........and contrary to many posters on here concerns about immigration is now a number one issue amongst the British electorate. Only last week we were told there are 8m in the UK who were not born here, with 800k arriving in one year.

Migration was a key reason why the public don't trust Labour after their failure to control it during their tenure.

Now we have the prospect of the EU driven by Germany and Merkel dictating to other democratically elected national Govts how many refugees/migrants they have to take.

I keep hearing on the news how in handling this crisis Germany is demonstrating to the world how it has changed since WW2............I'm not so sure.

 

[severnside gull]

UK migration hits record high


..... is that really reason enough to justify the lack of humanity and absence of fundamental compassion that allows children to die while we rationalise our refusal to reach out a hand directly to help

 

[CP 0 3 BHA]

Nice work by Bayern:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34142261

I wonder if AITC could step up with a similar role over here if and when the time comes?

 

[cunning fergus]

Nice work by Bayern:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34142261

I wonder if AITC could step up with a similar role over here if and when the time comes?

As its a charity working from donations I suspect it would need more money donated to extend its schemes to meet the demands of our new friends, unless it cuts existing schemes to people in the county.

http://albioninthecommunity.org.uk/

How much will you be donating to ensure this doesn't happen?

 

[severnside gull]

Nice work by Bayern:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34142261

I wonder if AITC could step up with a similar role over here if and when the time comes?

There are countless organisations and institutions up and down the land that would help

There is also a government that will do all in its power to prevent them from doing so whilst mouthing platitudes and issuing what are ultimately meaningless sound bites.

 

[cunning fergus]

UK migration hits record high


..... is that really reason enough to justify the lack of humanity and absence of fundamental compassion that allows children to die while we rationalise our refusal to reach out a hand directly to help

Many people may have boundless compassion on this issue, but compassion is a human emotion, it doesn't provide practical shelter or feed anyone...........money does.

And that is what these people need to be housed and fed and educated and provide with health care.

That is the brass tacks of it.

As for the consequences for children, I don't think the death of the many more adults is any less tragic,.........the number of adult deaths will undoubtedly include parents whose death will have a devastating impact on their surviving children.

There is no hierarchy of death or grief for those involved.

 

[BadFish]

Many people may have boundless compassion on this issue, but compassion is a human emotion, it doesn't provide practical shelter or feed anyone...........money does.

And that is what these people need to be housed and fed and educated and provide with health care.

That is the brass tacks of it.

As for the consequences for children, I don't think the death of the many more adults is any less tragic,.........the number of adult deaths will undoubtedly include parents whose death will have a devastating impact on their surviving children.

There is no hierarchy of death or grief for those involved.

Having watched this situation over the years it is nice to finally see the narrative changing.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Are you really unable to separate typical migration patterns with the current crisis?

I'm sure Captain Sensible can separate typical migration patters with what is going on, but Captain Sensible does have a point. Cameron can't do anything right at the moment, and why is just because Germany decide to take 800,000 the UK is suddenly seen as not doing enough, as the bad guys, uncaring. This country has probably done more than any other country in respects of taking in Asylum Seekers, offering them food, shelter and support and most importantly following the rules set out by the EU.

 

[W.C.]

This country has probably done more than any other country in respects of taking in Asylum Seekers, offering them food, shelter and support

Is that right then? I'd be interested to read some info on this?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Is that right then? I'd be interested to read some info on this?

I'm not measuring the numbers on this, I'm measuring the systems we had in place. It's a lot better than some other European countries, and this idea that the UK is not doing enough is wrong.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migration-uk-asylum

 

[W.C.]

I'm not measuring the numbers on this, I'm measuring the systems we had in place. It's a lot better than some other European countries, and this idea that the UK is not doing enough is wrong.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migration-uk-asylum

I see. I guess when people suggest the UK isn't doing enough they're referring to the current crisis though surely?

 

[KZNSeagull]

With respect, this is a very pompous remark -you should know that stats can be very misleading and it all depends on the wider context as to how valuable they are. We can all look up stats and quote when they suit our argument. The fact that you live away, and indeed far away, does not disqualify your views -all are important in a forum - but you have to accept that you will not be living with the consequences of whatever you advocate, and quoting stats is really all that you can add to the debate with any semblance of authority.

With respect, read back on the thread and you will see comments like " why are these migrants/refugees not going to Turkey and other neighbouring states" and "they should take their fair share" and then you will see why I posted those statistics. The fact that the "keep them out of Britain brigade" have jumped on my comment about fair shares and assumed it applies to Britain says more about them than it does me.

I will leave you all too it now - there is no point in having a discussion/debate with people who's minds are closed.

 

[nicko31]

Looks like we will take a few thousand buy from camps outside EU..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34148913

He's probably got it about right. A gesture of goodwill but no uncontrolled open door policy

 

[KZNSeagull]

i dont know if you or your source are deliberatly doing this, but those numbers look suspisiously like they are mixing all asylum seekers with asylum seekers from Syria. UK typically takes in 30k, while Germany near 120k-200? (difficult to get clear as they have increased dramactically for Germany. w're been consistant for decades, Germany until recent years admitted slightly few than us). and this doesnt count migrants total. as noted with no border controls following Schengen, once in EU people can move without challenge, but we are out of Schengen and have a large moat, so with their economy, more people head for Germany.

in any case the best place for refugees is near their home land, so they can return. seems to be consistantly overlooked. i'll say again , there it little reason to leave Turkey in search of asylum, thats a safe place for Syrians to stay.

Those figures come from the UNHCR and refer to Syrian refugees only. The 5000 for the UK figure comes from the source I quoted earlier as there was nothing reported by the UNHCR re Syrian refugees in the UK. I would imagine, but I have no proof, that the UNHCR's definition of a refugee is consistent across countries so I am assuming therefore that those figures can be used as a pretty decent guide as to who has the most Syrian refugees. How people interpret them is up to them.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

Nice work by Bayern:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34142261

I wonder if AITC could step up with a similar role over here if and when the time comes?

I am wondering what the Premier League's, the self-styled richest league in the world, response will be?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Looks like we will take a few thousand buy from camps outside EU..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34148913

He's probably got it about right. A gesture of goodwill but no uncontrolled open door policy

A few thousand is reasonable and I hope it stays that way.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Whilst Germanys stance has something to do with its history in the last century it is without doubt impressive. Sweden also. It is incumbent on our so called leaders to show a genuine moral compass and rise above the little englander mindset. We are a mighty country with an economy ranked fourth in the world. We can, should and i expect will do more

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

Whilst Germanys stance has something to do with its history in the last century it is without doubt impressive. Sweden also. It is incumbent on our so called leaders to show a genuine moral compass and rise above the little englander mindset. We are a mighty country with an economy ranked fourth in the world. We can, should and i expect will do more

Totally agree. Cameron is a poor leader though, he's showing this right now.

 

[Hastings gull]

11m empty homes across Europe. 700,000 empty homes in the UK. Shouldn't be that hard to collectively sort this crisis out should it really.

So simple isn't it. We let in millions, all of whom will happily take pot luck and move into that empty shabby shack in Romania and not bother about Germany. Once the millions are all settled in the homes, then of course they will have no other demands -no schooling, health issues, demands to practice religion, money for food, certainly initially, and the crisis is sorted, as you suggest.
Why had no one else thought of this?

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

So simple isn't it. We let in millions, all of whom will happily take pot luck and move into that empty shabby shack in Romania and not bother about Germany. Once the millions are all settled in the homes, then of course they will have no other demands -no schooling, health issues, demands to practice religion, money for food, certainly initially, and the crisis is sorted, as you suggest.
Why had no one else thought of this?

It should be quite simple. The UK is a wealthy country with a lot of high calibre human resource according to Cameron. Other nations have sat down, taken stock and acted. So why can't the UK with such economic and human riches at it's disposal?