Trump

[Randy McNob]

So Farage is saying Trump's claims of election fraud and inciting a violent mob is denying freedom of speech

[tweet]1347693313374220288[/tweet]

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I reckon it's the 1000s of years of recorded history that leads people to believe in the patriarchy, not 5 years of media coverage.

My principle is that the only difference between men and women is reproductive design and even that is blurred. The rest is conditioning.

 

[Jim in the West]

I was going to try stay out of this side debate but ..... 'Project Fear' came about because the remain campaign ( and I stress the campaign not the remain voters ) decided the best tactic was to highlight all the negatives of leaving the EU rather then the positives of staying. That put the backs up of those on the fence and resulted in them voting leave ( along side wanting to give an unpopular government a kick ). If the campaign had been a positive one I truly believe we'd still be in the EU.

I think you're probably right - but it's generally more difficult to defend the status quo. What would the message be? "Vote Remain and nothing changes". In a funny way the fact that we've ended up with such a hard Brexit probably makes it easier to re-join in the future (or at least end up with an EEA-style relationship)....as all the downsides of Brexit begin to emerge, the advantages of re-joining become more obvious. Just one example: the consensus seems to be that the extra bureaucracy involved in importing/exporting will cost somewhere around £10bn a year (not including the cost of the circa 50,000 additional customs agents). By re-joining the single market we can get rid of that straight away.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I was going to try stay out of this side debate but ..... 'Project Fear' came about because the remain campaign ( and I stress the campaign not the remain voters ) decided the best tactic was to highlight all the negatives of leaving the EU rather then the positives of staying. That put the backs up of those on the fence and resulted in them voting leave ( along side wanting to give an unpopular government a kick ). If the campaign had been a positive one I truly believe we'd still be in the EU.

So when faced with facts, the best thing to do is to get angry about them, shoot yourself in the foot and then wait for them to happen anyway? I'm not sure I understand that logic. In fact it sounds like total madness. By that logic, if the remain campaign had been based on lying about everything, it would have been successful. When did telling the truth become wrong?

I agree it was a shit campaign by the way, not assisted by the liars (Leaver) Corbyn and (Remainer) Johnson both doing everything through gritted teeth, purely for their own future benefit........

And this isn't just about Brexit as I'm definitely not getting into that, just the argument for voting a certain way that you've just described and it happens to fit a model.

Interesting that there (again, as you've described) IS the perfect parallel with so many of those who voted for Trump. Never mind the facts, they're not working for us let's "give the establishment a kick". We'll vote for something "totally different" because it has slogans, not facts....had enough of those eh Michael!

"Take Back Control"

"Make America Great Again"

Neither mean or meant anything.

Not forgetting that Farage, Trump et al aren't just the establishment by birth and inheritance, they're also shit gangsters who only care about themselves (Johnson not included as he's just a serial bullshitter who'd be inside for defrauding pensioners and cancer victims if he hadn't been born into privilege).

Anyway, at least that attitude (get angry because don't like facts, vote for what shouty rich man says) has worked out well for everyone so far on both sides of the pond.

YAY!

 

[Klaas]

So Farage is saying Trump's claims of election fraud and inciting a violent mob is denying freedom of speech

[tweet]1347693313374220288[/tweet]

What a surprise. Illustrating my point a little bit more of the overlap with Trumpsters and brexiters. Over the pond (nuts) conservatives are tying themselves in linguistic knots to try and shift the spotlight on to democrats. My favourite one, is that by seeking some justice re: Trumps incitement, they are simply fanning the flames creating more division. Weird when they seem so keen on stiff punishments in other situations.

 

[Klaas]

This fella is far more intelligent and eloquent than me. Sums up the new breed of mad 'conservatives':
[tweet]1347168384362930177[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What a surprise. Illustrating my point a little bit more of the overlap with Trumpsters and brexiters. Over the pond (nuts) conservatives are tying themselves in linguistic knots to try and shift the spotlight on to democrats. My favourite one, is that by seeking some justice re: Trumps incitement, they are simply fanning the flames creating more division. Weird when they seem so keen on stiff punishments in other situations.

Andy Wigmore (another link) has had his Twitter account suspended, as well.

The swamp is being drained.

 

[vagabond]

Absolutely brilliant post Viper on a very complex subject, sadly not acknowledged by many [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

Men’s rights are a real issue that people are very uncomfortable talking about.

Even a passing comment here about us being a patriarchy, is said as if it’s common knowledge, yet with no proof to back it up. Just repeating rhetoric that’s been put into your head for the last 5 years in media.

This is all wildly inaccurate and indicative of the nastiness that people like Trump have encouraged and allowed to emerge.

99% of domestic violence is committed towards women

Women still earn significantly less than men and occupy far few senior roles than men. Take a look at gender parity reports.

Jesus wept, white men get a few years of being told that they are privileged (when they are) and you’d think the world was falling in.

That’s nice. What’s got to do with anything I said regards “men’s rights”, and why are you bringing racism into it? I didn’t mention anything to do with white men. Shows your mindset.

This is all wildly inaccurate

Which bit is that then? Or are you talking about another persons post?

99% of domestic violence is committed towards women

Where did I talk about domestic violence? Or is that again another persons post?

Women still earn significantly less than men and occupy far few senior roles than men. Take a look at gender parity reports.

False. This has been debunked.

No matter how many times this wage gap claim is decisively refuted by economists, it always comes back. The bottom line: the 23-cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When such relevant factors are considered, the wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing.

Jesus wept, white men get a few years of being told that they are privileged (when they are)

And there you are again bringing race into it again. Strange (do you know what colour skin I have?). I was congratulating someone here for writing a fantastically detailed and well meaning post, and you come charging in with all this nonsense.

We were discussing men’s rights, notably in relation to the shocking high suicide rates of men. I fail to understand how anyone of good heart could be against that topic unless you have a deep rooted hatred of men.

 

[vagabond]

I reckon it's the 1000s of years of recorded history that leads people to believe in the patriarchy, not 5 years of media coverage.

But we’re discussing today, not 1000 years ago.

How is it a patriarchy in this country today?

 

[Beach Hut]

The lesson to be learnt from this is never let any leader of any country rule via Social Media

 

[drew]

But we’re discussing today, not 1000 years ago.

How is it a patriarchy in this country today?

https://www.businessleader.co.uk/discover-the-female-ftse-100-ceos-of-2020/81145/

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...rkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2020

 

[vagabond]

https://www.businessleader.co.uk/discover-the-female-ftse-100-ceos-of-2020/81145/

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...rkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2020

You’re looking at companies in the FTSE 100. CEOs at huge successful companies is a very very small fraction of the population. It’s not necessarily evidence of patriarchy. I remind you that before Boris we had a female PM, female Scottish first minister, and of course the queen. And Europe, Angela Merkel.

The vast majority of men who work in corporations will never ever reach CEO level. Most guys who get to that top level are typically either in the top percentile of very pathologically driven men devoting insane long hours, working away from home, no family, no relationships, or they started the company themselves.

 

[Blackadder]

The orange moron has tried to use the official govt Twitter accounts for his rants instead, but Twitter were ready for him.

He can set up his own social media app to rival Twitter, something like Bullshitter would be be apt.

 

[daveinprague]

His support base seems genuinely bonkers.

 

[Swansman]

My principle is that the only difference between men and women is reproductive design and even that is blurred. The rest is conditioning.

No way. If you research the history of humans you will find that pretty much every culture that existed at every stage was ruled by men. Thousands of societys that had never met, with great differences when it came to a lot of things, but all - with very, very few exceptions - ruled by men. Thats not something that happens randomly... its clearly biological, built into our species rather than a result of "conditioning" because otherwise we would have found a lot of proof for women ruling at least a dozen old cultures. The only society we know that worshipped females and allowed feminity to "rule" was Minoan Crete a couple of thousands years B.C.

 

[vegster]

His support base seems genuinely bonkers.

I just read this, I'm genuinely shocked that someone who served in the US military could not comprehend how democracy works? It seems like she has been groomed and primed and filled up with every conspiracy theory going and has been unable to step back and genuinely think.... the trouble is there must be millions more in the US and more than a few in this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...itt-capitol-mob-trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory

 

[drew]

You’re looking at companies in the FTSE 100. CEOs at huge successful companies is a very very small fraction of the population. It’s not necessarily evidence of patriarchy. I remind you that before Boris we had a female PM, female Scottish first minister, and of course the queen. And Europe, Angela Merkel.

The vast majority of men who work in corporations will never ever reach CEO level. Most guys who get to that top level are typically either in the top percentile of very pathologically driven men devoting insane long hours, working away from home, no family, no relationships, or they started the company themselves.

The Queen is only queen because she had no brothers, hardly a valid argument. The ascension rules have only recently been changed. May and Thatcher the only two female leaders of the electable parties in hundreds of years and of course there aren't any now. As for companies, 5% of FTSE 100 have female CEOs, it's even less in the FTSE 250.

Fact is it is easy to pick out exceptions as you have but it is wrong to promote them as the norm. I would suggest that we still live in a patriarchal society but it is slowly changing, with the caveat that there is a long way to go.

 

[daveinprague]

I just read this, I'm genuinely shocked that someone who served in the US military could not comprehend how democracy works? It seems like she has been groomed and primed and filled up with every conspiracy theory going and has been unable to step back and genuinely think.... the trouble is there must be millions more in the US and more than a few in this country.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...itt-capitol-mob-trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory

It's bizarre. They KEEP saying ithe election has been stolen, but unable to come with any credible evidence of it. Cases being thrown out of courts, even by Republican judges as laughable, but...it was stolen in their deranged minds. Minds that are now being arrested and grizzling about it.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I think you're probably right - but it's generally more difficult to defend the status quo. What would the message be? "Vote Remain and nothing changes". In a funny way the fact that we've ended up with such a hard Brexit probably makes it easier to re-join in the future (or at least end up with an EEA-style relationship)....as all the downsides of Brexit begin to emerge, the advantages of re-joining become more obvious. Just one example: the consensus seems to be that the extra bureaucracy involved in importing/exporting will cost somewhere around £10bn a year (not including the cost of the circa 50,000 additional customs agents). By re-joining the single market we can get rid of that straight away.

We will surely try to re-negotiate the terms of trade - but we'll not be close to re-joining in my lifetime. Like Switzerland, a few rounds of negotiation with a tougher, more powerful EU (despite us having all the cards) will not make the country more pre-EU. And we definitely won't be able to cherry pick the single market.

As most of us know - it will all have been a singularly expensive, pointless, waste of time.

 

[vegster]

It's bizarre. They KEEP saying ithe election has been stolen, but unable to come with any credible evidence of it. Cases being thrown out of courts, even by Republican judges as laughable, but...it was stolen in their deranged minds. Minds that are now being arrested and grizzling about it.

Even funnier is the strong belief that the election has been stolen by a top secret cabal of Communists ! How anyone could accuse Joe Biden of that is deranged ! But, sadly, the Q-anon and all the other foil hatters are all onboard despite there being only about 3,000 card carrying Communists in the USA.

The sad thing is that there need to be some kind of national de-toxification, the total repudiation of all the crank theories and lies. It's like millions of US citizens need one to one counselling over many weeks in order to slowly assuage their meaningless beliefs and fears. It's like getting you daughter back from spending six months with a branch of Scientologists, they need to be deprogrammed and it isn't going to happen because too many cranks and right wing news outlets feed off each other.