Trump

[Jim in the West]

The only comparison between the Brexit process and Wednesday's Trump rally was baying mobs outside Parliament, marching up and down waving EU flags and trying to overturn a democratic outcome they didn't like by shouting at it. Anti-democratic protests in both cases. Fortunately the remainers' baying mob seeking to overturn democracy was less violent and aggressive than the loons in America, and didn't get people killed, although with Sir Bob Geldof in their midst they may well have been more potty-mouthed!

As part of the "baying mobs outside Parliament", I wish to disagree! I took part in all three marches. They were all peaceful (not bad considering the second and third march attracted about a million people). It wasn't a question of overturning a democratic outcome. It was actually all about seeking a greater democratic validation of the 2016 Vote (which, remember, was "advisory"). The whole point of the marches was to seek a second referendum, once the terms of the deal had been clarified. There is absolutely no valid comparison with what happened on Capitol Hill (which, by the way, caused FIVE deaths).

The similarities between Trump-ism and Brexit are that they are both based on a pack of lies. You could argue that much of politics is lying - but Trump and the Brexit crew took it to an altogether different level. What amazes me in all this is that the people with most to lose from Trump and Brexit seem to be their biggest supporters. But maybe here in the UK the fishermen, the farmers, the car workers, those in hospitals with far fewer EU nurses and doctors, those small business owners facing mountainous red-tape just to send a widget to Germany, those who live next to the huge new lorry parks popping up around the country, those loyalists in Northern Ireland who now discover the road to a united Ireland is much clearer, etc, etc....maybe some of those will start to realise they've been sold out.

The US will be free of Trump (at least as President) in two weeks' time. Unfortunately in the UK we probably have decades of Brexit. But hopefully we will still have the democratic right to peacefully protest and maybe some time "overturn" the result of the 2016 referendum!

 

[Klaas]

Genius [tweet]1346935756128804868[/tweet]

That is uncanny!

 

[KeithDublin]

Talk me through your thinking there.

I'll give this one a go, if you don't mind:

"I think it will annoy this SJW if i compare them to Trump, and have absolutely no facts or examples to back up my claim"

 

[GT49er]

Talk me through your thinking there.

You clearly despise people who support Brexit and happily link them to anything derogatory - in this case linking decent people who voted Brexit to the baying mob at the White House on Wednesday - but you are unable to accept that that is what you are doing.

 

[Weststander]

Well I was going for a slightly more nuanced view than tarring 'supporters of Brexit with the same brush as Trump supporters' don't you think? That's why I used phrases like, 'a new kind of conservative', 'It’s a weird alliance', 'Lots of Brexit supporters embrace it', 'they overlap', 'the main whataboutists, apologists and outright fans of Trump'.
Even referred to 'regular' brexit voters.

But I guess it's got to be black and white for you, I drew a parallel with a section of brexit voters who are 'sympathetic to a Trumpian world view' (didn't even call them Trump supporters did I?) and that's it, I think Brexit = Trump.

Your right about the uniform anti Trump flavour of this thread, I've said the same myself in the past. I just pointed out that the only times people have tried whataboutery, shitposted or even occasionally coming out in support for Trump on this thread, they've all been prominent NSC brexity types.



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A lot of young faces in those photos. That fits in with my experience, where the staunch Trump supporters I know comprise a couple of hitherto Labour voters in their early 50's (I remember when we young, they hated Maggie) ... what a turnaround!! But mainly lads in their late teens and twenties. None of them UK party political, but vehement supporters of Trump, fake virus, Icke, anti-vax, anti face masks, the 5G masts theory and climate change deniers.

In really big numbers. Apparently their parents are too, just normal middle class familiies living in Brighton and Lewes.

 

[marlowe]

I can't actually believe he read it out. I wonder who actually managed to persuade him to do it?

With reference to my previous post #11198 and the spliced in section maybe the only way they could convince him to do it was to first not tell him about that added segment of the speech and get him to record the speech without it. Once they had achieved the easy part and got that in the can they then had to do the hard part and reveal the piece they wanted him to add.

It was probably easier and less risky to do it that way. If they had revealed the whole speech originally they ran the risk that he would have refused to record any of it. At least if he had refused the added in part they already had a speech they could release which showed him condemning the actions of the demonstrators, if nothing else.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

As part of the "baying mobs outside Parliament", I wish to disagree! I took part in all three marches. They were all peaceful (not bad considering the second and third march attracted about a million people). It wasn't a question of overturning a democratic outcome. It was actually all about seeking a greater democratic validation of the 2016 Vote (which, remember, was "advisory"). The whole point of the marches was to seek a second referendum, once the terms of the deal had been clarified. There is absolutely no valid comparison with what happened on Capitol Hill (which, by the way, caused FIVE deaths).

The similarities between Trump-ism and Brexit are that they are both based on a pack of lies. You could argue that much of politics is lying - but Trump and the Brexit crew took it to an altogether different level. What amazes me in all this is that the people with most to lose from Trump and Brexit seem to be their biggest supporters. But maybe here in the UK the fishermen, the farmers, the car workers, those in hospitals with far fewer EU nurses and doctors, those small business owners facing mountainous red-tape just to send a widget to Germany, those who live next to the huge new lorry parks popping up around the country, those loyalists in Northern Ireland who now discover the road to a united Ireland is much clearer, etc, etc....maybe some of those will start to realise they've been sold out.

The US will be free of Trump (at least as President) in two weeks' time. Unfortunately in the UK we probably have decades of Brexit. But hopefully we will still have the democratic right to peacefully protest and maybe some time "overturn" the result of the 2016 referendum!

Word.

 

[GT49er]

As part of the "baying mobs outside Parliament", I wish to disagree! I took part in all three marches. They were all peaceful (not bad considering the second and third march attracted about a million people). It wasn't a question of overturning a democratic outcome. It was actually all about seeking a greater democratic validation of the 2016 Vote (which, remember, was "advisory").

So that's your definition of 'not over-turning it' then! Wowsers!
OK, carry on .....................................

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There is close to no chance of him running in '24. Why would he? He's got the title, proved he had little interest in actually doing the work and will be having too much fun sniping from the sidelines about how he would've done things so much better.

The GOP would've moved on by then. Remember this is the guy responsible for losing them the House and now the Senate as well as the Presidency. I'm 50/50 on whether one of his kids might give it a go –*all depends how the legal things (if any) play out over the next few months and years. Lindsay Graham, Pence or Cruz are more likely to be the frontrunners along with some of the people who have escaped the administration in recent months. Romney as an outside chance, maybe?

If he can keep the IRS and others who want to dig into his tax and business affairs at bay for 4 years and can be elected president again he can buy himself another slice of immunity, perhaps. Maybe he thinks that, even if it isn't so (I seem to recall others posting here he isn't immune. and I doubt he'd get the GOP to back him again after all his weaselry).

 

[lawros left foot]

I am concerned that Biden won’t make it to 2024.
Not his age, more people are living longer now, I hope that the more extreme right wing nutters among Trumps supporters don’t take it into their heads to use their ‘God given’ gun rights to assassinate him.
Before anyone says it’s unlikely, America has a long and dishonourable history of taking out their Presidents, and the far right in this country murdered an MP not too long ago.

Lincoln, Garfield,McKinley,and Kennedy, hopefully we won’t be adding Biden to this list.

 

[Klaas]

You clearly despise people who support Brexit and happily link them to anything derogatory - in this case linking decent people who voted Brexit to the baying mob at the White House on Wednesday - but you are unable to accept that that is what you are doing.

I'm going to ignore all your usual hyperbole and ask you to do me one simple thing. Show me where I linked Brexit voters to the mob at Capitol hill?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

So that's your definition of 'not over-turning it' then! Wowsers!
OK, carry on .....................................

OK. So not baying mobs on the London marches then. Just people with a different view from you peaceably expressing their opinion.

 

[RossyG]

I am concerned that Biden won’t make it to 2024.
Not his age, more people are living longer now, I hope that the more extreme right wing nutters among Trumps supporters don’t take it into their heads to use their ‘God given’ gun rights to assassinate him.
Before anyone says it’s unlikely, America has a long and dishonourable history of taking out their Presidents, and the far right in this country murdered an MP not too long ago.

Lincoln, Garfield,McKinley,and Kennedy, hopefully we won’t be adding Biden to this list.

There were four attempts on Obama’s life and five on Trump’s, all thankfully foiled by the security services, but it’s always a possibility.

I don’t think Biden will see out his four years, but because he'll be sidelined and replaced due to ill health.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

You clearly despise people who support Brexit and happily link them to anything derogatory - in this case linking decent people who voted Brexit to the baying mob at the White House on Wednesday - but you are unable to accept that that is what you are doing.

Except he's done nothing of the kind. He's gone out of his way to make sure he hasn't generalised about all leavers.You are adding nothing to the discussion but misrepresenting what he has posted.

 

[Klaas]

Just come across this footage of a typical Brexit supporter*

[tweet]1347216449480364032[/tweet]

*joking **




**or am I?***


***Yes, I am joking

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This is just utter nonsense. You and many others simply will not own this element of the Brexit vote.

That doesn’t actually mean anything. I own my vote, you own yours. That’s it. Like Trump you feel the need to downgrade the value of votes of the winning side. I understand but this is a thread about Trump. You linked it to Brexit so perhaps you want it in the Bear Pit.

 

[sydney]

I'm going to ignore all your usual hyperbole and ask you to do me one simple thing. Show me where I linked Brexit voters to the mob at Capitol hill?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

If he can keep the IRS and others who want to dig into his tax and business affairs at bay for 4 years and can be elected president again he can buy himself another slice of immunity, perhaps. Maybe he thinks that, even if it isn't so (I seem to recall others posting here he isn't immune. and I doubt he'd get the GOP to back him again after all his weaselry).

I'd actually love to see him enter the race and get binned at one of the earliest opportunities. The damage to his ego would be hilarious

On a more serious note, I wonder if he gets the irony that, in 2024, he'll be older than "Sleepy Joe" is now. A man who he has deemed unfit for office because of his age – and also the mental issues that Trumpo invented, which gullible mugs now take as gospel...

 

[sydney]

Just come across this footage of a typical Brexit supporter*

[tweet]1347216449480364032[/tweet]

*joking **




**or am I?***


***Yes, I am joking

safe as a squirrel in your little sussex bubble ....bless.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As part of the "baying mobs outside Parliament", I wish to disagree! I took part in all three marches. They were all peaceful (not bad considering the second and third march attracted about a million people). It wasn't a question of overturning a democratic outcome. It was actually all about seeking a greater democratic validation of the 2016 Vote (which, remember, was "advisory"). The whole point of the marches was to seek a second referendum, once the terms of the deal had been clarified. There is absolutely no valid comparison with what happened on Capitol Hill (which, by the way, caused FIVE deaths).

The similarities between Trump-ism and Brexit are that they are both based on a pack of lies. You could argue that much of politics is lying - but Trump and the Brexit crew took it to an altogether different level. What amazes me in all this is that the people with most to lose from Trump and Brexit seem to be their biggest supporters. But maybe here in the UK the fishermen, the farmers, the car workers, those in hospitals with far fewer EU nurses and doctors, those small business owners facing mountainous red-tape just to send a widget to Germany, those who live next to the huge new lorry parks popping up around the country, those loyalists in Northern Ireland who now discover the road to a united Ireland is much clearer, etc, etc....maybe some of those will start to realise they've been sold out.

The US will be free of Trump (at least as President) in two weeks' time. Unfortunately in the UK we probably have decades of Brexit. But hopefully we will still have the democratic right to peacefully protest and maybe some time "overturn" the result of the 2016 referendum!

I agree with every word of this.

But in fairness to [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION], one thing he says is also correct - not all (and indeed I expect few) Brexit supporters agree with Trump.

Maybe the swathe of nice sensible folk on the gentle slopes, either side of the neutral peak of opinion about Brexit, all of whom deplore racism and Trump, might consider avoiding being divided and ruled over by the extremes (in the present case the extreme right, since the extreme left have been truly scuppered with the demise of the useless Corbyn) and avoid painting the other guys as mentalist lefties or Trump's bitches, just because of a difference over Brexit? And I say that as someone who sees no value and only detriment in Brexit - maybe history will show me to be wrong on this. The other key bit being that histrory has already shown who is right about racism and Trumpism, and only sad mad people who don't matter would favour either. Surely we all know that and can agree? Just a thought .