[News] Trouble in The Dam

[PascalGroß Tips]

"

• Amsterdam police chief Peter Holla said Maccabi supporters attacked a taxi and set a Palestinian flag on fire on Wednesday, the day before the widespread attacks on Israelis"

Should I believe the police or them?

You will believe who you want to believe. Just because one happened - it doesn’t mean the other didn’t.

 

[jackalbion]

You will believe who you want to believe. Just because one happened - it doesn’t mean the other didn’t.

What about believing both! It seems to me Maccabi fans attacked a taxi, the driver being pissed off with this likely told his mates, who then colluded with the attackers, it doesn't make one side right and one side wrong, no one comes out of this looking particularly good.

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

What about believing both! It seems to me Maccabi fans attacked a taxi, the driver being pissed off with this likely told his mates, who then colluded with the attackers, it doesn't make one side right and one side wrong, no one comes out of this looking particularly good.

Which is exactly what I was saying. Both things happened by all accounts.

 

[superseagull1994]

Lets face it the whole thing is a shit show.

 

[jackalbion]

Lets face it the whole thing is a shit show.

I agree which is why IMO, I think the media and politicians jumping on it using terms like 'pogrom' etc, is not really needed until we get a clearer context.

 

[superseagull1994]

I agree which is why IMO, I think the media and politicians jumping on it using terms like 'pogrom' etc, is not really needed until we get a clearer context.

Agreed, I thought this got disproportionate coverage compared to when fans normally fight or wreck up a city during European competitions.

 

[jackalbion]

Agreed, I thought this got disproportionate coverage compared to when fans normally fight or wreck up a city during European competitions.

Violence happened in a similar way when they played Olympiacos or Panathanikos in the conference league last year, I didn't see rescue planes etc, Netanyahu has used this ONCE AGAIN as time to flex his muscles.

 

[Ali_rrr]

Agreed, I thought this got disproportionate coverage compared to when fans normally fight or wreck up a city during European competitions.

It's massive here because hooliganism on the streets hasn't been this bad in years here. Normally the trouble occurs in stadiums themselves due to the away regulations (every match is a bubble match). Added to the fact people from all over the country came to Amsterdam to cause trouble, as had been the case at multiple universities in the protests, it's a huge deal coinciding with a large commemoration of Kristallnacht. Added to the fact some Maccabi fans were living up to many people's pre-conceived notions of Israelis before the game, it was bound to have some trouble.

To be honest, I am sure the media organisations have been eagerly awaiting trouble like this to finally happen in Europe since the Hamas attack last October and are delighted there's more polarisation and division they can cause.

 

[Ali_rrr]

Violence happened in a similar way when they played Olympiacos or Panathanikos in the conference league last year, I didn't see rescue planes etc, Netanyahu has used this ONCE AGAIN as time to flex his muscles.

Unsurprising really. Wilders, the leader of the most popular party in The Netherlands, is a friend of Netanyahu and is very anti islam. In Greece, I'm not sure who was attacking them but in this case it is obvious who the perpetrators of the attack were.

Netanyahu will use this in Israel to justify his appalling war crimes and Wilders will use it to further his disgusting anti-islam rhetoric.

I fear the perpetrators of these attacks on the Maccabi fans have done more indirect damage than they realise.

 

[superseagull1994]

It's massive here because hooliganism on the streets hasn't been this bad in years here. Normally the trouble occurs in stadiums themselves due to the away regulations (every match is a bubble match). Added to the fact people from all over the country came to Amsterdam to cause trouble, as had been the case at multiple universities in the protests, it's a huge deal coinciding with a large commemoration of Kristallnacht. Added to the fact some Maccabi fans were living up to many people's pre-conceived notions of Israelis before the game, it was bound to have some trouble.

To be honest, I am sure the media organisations have been eagerly awaiting trouble like this to finally happen in Europe since the Hamas attack last October and are delighted there's more polarisation and division they can cause.

I can see why it'd be a huge story in the Netherlands as I'd expect football violence in a UK city to be here, but it's a leading headline on most news here and you don't get that for other clashes around football matches. I think your last sentence is spot on.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I have no idea.

Why did someone attending last year's Remembrance Day at the Brighton cenotaph feel the need to be flying an Israeli flag? It's shameful that the fella felt the need to politicise a service to remember those who lost their lives in the service of this country.

 

[aolstudios]

From a (Jewish) friend, earlier...

"a football fan rang in on Alex Phillips phone in on Talk this morning. Hearing personal testimony is so powerful. He intervened as an Israeli was being badly beaten by an organised gang of Arabs. They sais "Are you a Jew?" " He said no. Then" Are you Israeli? "He said no. The gang leader instructed them to leave him because he's only British. So they let him off with a light punishment for trying to save a Jew. Smashed him in the face, breaking his glasses and causing facial injuries. I cried, listening."

Just normal football violence, obvs

 

[Napper]

From a (Jewish) friend, earlier...

"a football fan rang in on Alex Phillips phone in on Talk this morning. Hearing personal testimony is so powerful. He intervened as an Israeli was being badly beaten by an organised gang of Arabs. They sais "Are you a Jew?" " He said no. Then" Are you Israeli? "He said no. The gang leader instructed them to leave him because he's only British. So they let him off with a light punishment for trying to save a Jew. Smashed him in the face, breaking his glasses and causing facial injuries. I cried, listening."

Just normal football violence, obvs

yep , people should be ashamed of themselves defending the agenda at all costs

 

[jackalbion]

From a (Jewish) friend, earlier...

"a football fan rang in on Alex Phillips phone in on Talk this morning. Hearing personal testimony is so powerful. He intervened as an Israeli was being badly beaten by an organised gang of Arabs. They sais "Are you a Jew?" " He said no. Then" Are you Israeli? "He said no. The gang leader instructed them to leave him because he's only British. So they let him off with a light punishment for trying to save a Jew. Smashed him in the face, breaking his glasses and causing facial injuries. I cried, listening."

Just normal football violence, obvs

There is once again context to that situation that @Ali_rrr explained multiple times, but of course like all your posts on this subject you are just going to tell everyone why they should be ashamed of themselves and how we're all so awful, laughing at any point anyone makes.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Can’t really get upset over a few Maccabi Tel Aviv fans getting a kicking giving what their army are doing to women and kids

Whose to say self same fans have not been opposing Netanyahu?

So you are saying it doesn't matter because they are all the same?

 

[Wardy's twin]

I have no idea.

Why did someone attending last year's Remembrance Day at the Brighton cenotaph feel the need to be flying an Israeli flag? It's shameful that the fella felt the need to politicise a service to remember those who lost their lives in the service of this country.

Maybe they had a Jewish relative who fought in the war in the Jewish Brigade whose flag was the Star of David....

 

[aolstudios]

There is once again context to that situation that @Ali_rrr explained multiple times, but of course like all your posts on this subject you are just going to tell everyone why they should be ashamed of themselves and how we're all so awful, laughing at any point anyone makes.

Tell me the "context to the situation" in my post
Please

 

[pigmanovich]

Whose to say self same fans have not been opposing Netanyahu?

Not out of the question, but MTA ultras' reputation precedes them, even if they're less notorious than Beitar Jerusalem's fans. For example:

While the [anti-Netanyahu] protests were raging in Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv, a group of young men attacked anti-Netanyahu protesters with batons and broken bottles. Five people were injured as a result. Videos of the attack were widely shared on social media, with users initially assuming La Familia were responsible for the attack. However, it later transpired that the attackers were members of Maccabi Tel Aviv ultra group Maccabi Fanatics. In 2014, a group of supporters at Bloomfield Stadium's gate 11, where Maccabi Tel Aviv's ultra group are based, shouted racist slurs in the direction of Mahran Radi, an Arab-Israeli who then played for the club. Graffiti was also sprayed in the Tel Aviv area, saying: "We don't want Arabs at Maccabi!" and "Radi is dead." Speaking about his time at Israel's most decorated club at a 2019 panel, Radi, former Israel international, explained how some of his fellow players had tried to arrange a meeting with the supporters racially abusing him, including team captain and Maccabi Tel Aviv legend Sheran Yeini, who suggested both sides would meet to talk things out. "A few days later, Yeini came back and told me there's nothing we can do, they just hate Arabs," Radi said. The midfielder ended up leaving the club to Hapoel Be'er Sheva, leading them to three league titles in a row. No Arab player has joined Maccabi Tel Aviv since. The club told Israeli media this has nothing to do with politics, and that it rejects racism. With 23 league titles and 23 Israeli Cups, Maccabi Tel Aviv is Israel's most successful football club. Their fans come from all layers of Israeli society and, unlike Beitar Jerusalem fans, they are not known to be associated with any one political view. In some cases, the racist chants from parts of gate 11 were answered by booing from other stands. Speaking about Maccabi Tel Aviv's fanbase, Levy told DW that, while Maccabi Fanatics are not representative of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans more broadly, the group should not be underestimated. "I have many friends who support Maccabi Tel Aviv, people of different political opinions," Levy said. "They all tell me the Fanatics are exactly the same breed as La Familia."

 

[jackalbion]

Whose to say self same fans have not been opposing Netanyahu?

So you are saying it doesn't matter because they are all the same?

You raise a valid point to be fair, but personally I see this as two groups of fascists (Maccabi Ultras and whoever the attackers were) having a scrap, and as a result a lot of innocent Maccabi fans not related to their ultras have got caught up in it, and those fascists have decided to pick on random people who looked jewish which is disgusting and those people are bad. Something that happens almost weekly in european football, hatred against islam in European football circles is also in a dire state.

 

[jackalbion]

Tell me the "context to the situation" in my post
Please

That people were being attacked on the street based on their ethnicity, however that people have targeted the event, which its important to realise is because Maccabi ultras are some of the most racist supporters in Israel (barring maybe Beitar Jerusalem), I'm just a little sceptical because I'm familiar with Maccabi's reputation, to think there wasn't organisation on both sides, and provocation. If this had happened to a club like Hapoel for example I'd be much more alarmed, than I am currently, which is still pretty alarmed, but to be me seems to be organised fighting, rather than a random occurrence.