[Travel] Tourism Backlash

[um bongo molongo]

And many of the holiday lets and apartments rented to digital nomads are owned by locals. Doesn't mean the rest aren't being fecked over.

I am not sure I totally agree with this as I remember endless streams of EF students standing in the streets looking at maps as a teen in the 80s. Which infrastructure do you think is under pressure?

The bigger issue in Brighton is housing costs, both buying and renting, being distorted by London wages.

Yep. Spent most of my teenage years in the early to mid 90s trying to chat up one of the many foreign students, with spectacularly unsuccessful results.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Always stayed in a caravan when I was a child 60/70’s ….loved every minute of it…..but then that was before or at the start of the lure of package holidays and the competition that brought

We still do, but in a static caravan in Western France on a brilliant campsite, with gorgeous 10km flat sandy beach, and beautiful countryside for my other half to cycle in.
Who needs touristy areas?

 

[um bongo molongo]

I really do think there needs to be legislation against the AirBnB market. It’s happening around the world and Berlin has introduced measures.

I live in London and we rent out our (only) home when we go on holiday. We’re only allowed to do that for up to 90 days/year (which is fine for us). We nearly always get an AirBnB for our holiday also (paid or part paid by renting ours out). With two young kids I honestly don’t understand how hotels work for people like us - having to go to bed at the same time as my two year old is not my idea of a holiday, and two bed suites / connecting rooms are incredibly expensive.

 

[um bongo molongo]

Always stayed in a caravan when I was a child 60/70’s ….loved every minute of it…..but then that was before or at the start of the lure of package holidays and the competition that brought

We had a tow caravan and every bloody holiday was in it. On top of which, my parents were scout leaders and there were about 8 camps a year. I didn’t go on a plane till I was 18. But if I never see the inside of another caravan in my life I’ll be happy.

 

[Weststander]

Growing up as a child in Brighton during the late 80’s and 90’s, I have some sympathy. Watching a town become a city, prices go through the roof, pavements being dominated by endless streams of French schoolchildren walking 5 abreast… Brighton isn’t the place I grew up in, and I’m glad to be out of there.

The problems IMHO come when places get too big for the infrastructure in place to manage them. It’s a never ending game of trying to keep up, and eventually something’s gotta give.

Trying to enjoy Brighton in the summer, even in term times, is very akin to central London and it didn’t used to be this way.

I still adore Brighton with my heart. I think it’s improved.

A personal thing I suppose. I like the buzz of cities, here or overseas. The English language visitors thing has always been criticised by some, in the 80’s people said they rudely block pavements, jump queues for buses etc … whereas I like their interest in our city.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We still do, but in a static caravan in Western France on a brilliant campsite, with gorgeous 10km flat sandy beach, and beautiful countryside for my other half to cycle in.
Who needs touristy areas?

I still go ‘down west’ …but out of season which ties in with my own ‘season’ of work and it fits my budget

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I still go ‘down west’ …but out of season which ties in with my own ‘season’ of work and it fits my budget

June or September for us, when it's fairly quiet but most stuff is open.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We had a tow caravan and every bloody holiday was in it. On top of which, my parents were scout leaders and there were about 8 camps a year. I didn’t go on a plane till I was 18. But if I never see the inside of another caravan in my life I’ll be happy.

I remember many a holiday of getting stuck behind a car towing a caravan

I was in the Boys brigade and we did many camps….annual out at Clynde …bell tents pitched in a field the cows had been in the week before ..so u can imagine what was in the tent …and several other expeditions ….i am not going on holiday in a tent again!

 

[LamieRobertson]

June or September for us, when it's fairly quiet but most stuff is open.

Bit better than my January/February then

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I live in London and we rent out our (only) home when we go on holiday. We’re only allowed to do that for up to 90 days/year (which is fine for us). We nearly always get an AirBnB for our holiday also (paid or part paid by renting ours out). With two young kids I honestly don’t understand how hotels work for people like us - having to go to bed at the same time as my two year old is not my idea of a holiday, and two bed suites / connecting rooms are incredibly expensive.

A mix of hotels and AirBnB is fine. I know people who do exactly the same as you....although they are making a fortune on their apartment for the Euros. But Berlin had an explosion of professional AirBnBers which really did have a huge impact. Laws were brought in to mitigate the professional market and a dedicated team has been set up to enforce these laws (including a snitch line!). It's working. I believe you can still operate as a pro AirBnBer BUT you need to get a license and have accounts etc. In short, if you want to be a professional then you will have to follow similar rules to, say guest houses and small hotels. Seems fair to me. This does not stop @um bongo molongo letting out his place for a few weeks of the year though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bit better than my January/February then

Weather wise, this year, unfortunately not.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I still adore Brighton with my heart. I think it’s improved.

A personal thing I suppose. I like the buzz of cities, here or overseas. The English language visitors thing has always been criticised by some, in the 80’s people said they rudely block pavements, jump queues for buses etc … whereas I like their interest in our city.

Since I have been living abroad, I have lost count of the people who have told me they spent time in Brighton learning English. The city has, without a single fail, left a postive impression on them. This has to be a good thing. Personally, it warms my heart to see youngsters, with those huge EF backpacks, enjoying our city.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Since I have been living abroad, I have lost count of the people who have told me they spent time in Brighton learning English. The city has, without a single fail, left a postive impression on them. This has to be a good thing. Personally, it warms my heart to see youngsters, with those huge EF backpacks, enjoying our city.

"Ah, you're from Brighton? Yes, I learnt my English in Brighton. Get out my faackin' way, you faackin' caant."

 

[Seagull58]

Having recently returned from Majorca I was amazed at the aggression and anger put towards tourists. If you look at most towns on the island it's difficult to appreciate how they'd survive without tourism. I had a discussion with a local who was very much opposed to tourism and I thought it'd be directed towards drunken people causing trouble etc, but far from it. This guy was angry that so many private properties had been purchased by families and lay empty most of the year, as only used for 2-4 weeks by the owners. So the local property prices have risen dramatically, and the local businesses and families don't benefit as it actually removes tourists from buying food, beer and using local attractions. I'm sure others were concerned about behaviour and others about Air BnB. I'm against second property ownership anyway, but this angle was new to me and I get it.

Portugal, the Algarve and Lisbon in particular, has a similar situation with large numbers of properties used for tourist rentals, resulting in a shortage of annual rental properties and high rental prices (and high purchase prices). With a minimum wage of €820 a month, many workers are priced out of apartment rentals and have to share properties and even share rooms. Many of the new properties are purchased by owners who rent them to tourists.
Tourist rental properties have to be licensed by the municipal authority, an AL license. Owners who have an AL license pay only 6% tax on the rental income but owners doing annual rents pay 28%. This was introduced many years ago to grow the tourist rental market but the pendulum has swung a long way in the other direction.
The last government announced a moratorium on new AL licenses, zero rental income tax until 2030 for any owner that switched their property from AL to annual rental, and a requirement for existing AL licensees to provide evidence that they were active in the tourist rental market or they would lose their license. They also announced compulsory purchase of long-term empty/derelict properties for refurbishment and release to the annual rental market.
Unfortunately, imo, the new government elected 3 months ago was extensively lobbied by the tourist and housing sale sectors and has reversed all the proposed actions. I am now seeing 2 bedroomed apartments in a block built 2 years ago available for rent through airbnb at €315 per night through the summer months.
As the Portuguese are not French or Spanish there are no public protests against the situation and they don't blame the tourists, but there is must discontent about high, and increasing, purchase and long-term rental prices compared to low wages.

 

[£1.99]

Since I have been living abroad, I have lost count of the people who have told me they spent time in Brighton learning English. The city has, without a single fail, left a postive impression on them. This has to be a good thing. Personally, it warms my heart to see youngsters, with those huge EF backpacks, enjoying our city.

Me too!
I met my German wife 50 years ago when she was one of these students and we are still together.

 

[Seagull58]

This is a huge issue in Portugal, that led directly to the election of a far right government.

In Lisbon you're looking at London property prices on less than half a London salary.

Why? Because the property market has been flooded with airbnbs and also Lisbon is one of the top global destinations for digital nomads with high salaries. It's a real issue that needs looking at, not simply an attitude of "but tourists bring in money!"

Barcelona has recently decided to ban Airbnb in the city, on a staged transition to allow the owners to find other income streams. It really needs more regulation and control, it's become a real problem in cities with a lot of tourists.

Deleted

 

[Seagull58]

This is a huge issue in Portugal, that led directly to the election of a far right government.

In Lisbon you're looking at London property prices on less than half a London salary.

Why? Because the property market has been flooded with airbnbs and also Lisbon is one of the top global destinations for digital nomads with high salaries. It's a real issue that needs looking at, not simply an attitude of "but tourists bring in money!"

Barcelona has recently decided to ban Airbnb in the city, on a staged transition to allow the owners to find other income streams. It really needs more regulation and control, it's become a real problem in cities with a lot of tourists.

Unfortunately, one of the first actions of the new right-wing government in Portugal was to cancel all the planned actions of the previous government that were aimed at increasing the long-term rental market, increasing affordable housing stock and putting a brake on the purchase of properties for tourist rentals. They were extensively lobbied by the tourism and housebuilding sectors not to kill the golden goose (for some, at the expense of the local majority).

 

[maltaseagull]

Always stayed in a caravan when I was a child 60/70’s ….loved every minute of it…..but then that was before or at the start of the lure of package holidays and the competition that brought

2 weeks in a caravan near Durdle Door as a kid. Wore wellies most days as it rained most of the holiday. Never again!

 

[Seagull58]

As I mentioned above, the average rent for a one-bed flat in Lisbon is over 2 grand. It's one of the most expensive cities in Europe despite the low salaries for locals (minimum wage is 740 euros)

Average rent for a 1 bed apartment in Lisbon is actually about €1,200 to €1,700, dependent on location, and the minimum eage is €820 for 2024, but your general point about rising prices and unaffordability for locals and long-term tenants is still valid.

 

[dazzer6666]

We had a tow caravan and every bloody holiday was in it. On top of which, my parents were scout leaders and there were about 8 camps a year. I didn’t go on a plane till I was 18. But if I never see the inside of another caravan in my life I’ll be happy.

Similar to me - childhood holidays were invariably caravan sites (couple of weeks in the school holidays with several other local families on the same site - road trip from Devon to say, Selsey - in convoy - was a big deal for us in the 70s ), and I was in the cubs/scouts/ventures and camped multiple times a year. First time on a plane was when I was 19........