[Football] Touching-up v Snowflakes

[alfredmizen]

 

[The Clamp]

mosques are segregated along gender lines , get over it

Mosques are not men only, as you claimed. Get over that and stop digging your daft, islamaphobic hole. I'm bowing out of this exchange and your attempt to derail the thread. Good luck.

 

[LlcoolJ]

 

[GreersElbow]

I think they would be sensible enough not to work at such an occasion.

Ah, of course they would..

 

[Chief Wiggum]

 

[knocky1]

im celebrating the SUICIDE of a former MP you treacherous weasel , whats your next.move now your laughable attempt at.intimidating me via proxy with some big bad antifa clown didnt work?

Could you translate?

 

[The Clamp]

Could you translate?

He's off on one today. His provocative avatar and crowbaring his hatred of other cultures into a non related thread. It'd be fun to have our own angry pet bigot. If there weren't so damned many of them on here right now.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

View attachment 93464

I can't believe he's nicked all of his wife's Christmas presents. What an a*s.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Wow, what a fantastic pice of journalism! I've never read such contrived drivel in my life. Whats the FT doing covering this story, who actualy really cares. Go to many a Rugby Club dinner up and down the country and see how life really is. Has anyone been arrested, has anyone made a complaint? Its really none of our business what went on there between consenting adults and as for the Tory MP who was marched infront of the PM, I would have had more respect for him if he had said he had a great time and was planning to go to the event next year and by the way PM it raised £1.2m more than your putting into the NHS. never mind that'll another few more dead children because of lack of funding because some nobody journalist was offended. What have we all become, blokes are being nutured, people scared of saying anything, people offended on behalf of others. Perhaps that journalist Ms i've forgotten your name already would liked to have come to war with me and complained about the violence.
These journalists live in some parallel, hedonistic universe. Get real and take a look at yourself, I bet you're a bundle of laughs on a night out!!

 

[Dave the OAP]

Ruling classes have no respect for working people. What a shocker!!!

It is not really surprising that they are out of step with the changing values of respect. They only need a flimsy veneer of 'its for charity' to convince themselves that their behaviour is okay.

I don't know if it makes me a 'snowflake' to those apologists who want to bathe in the reflected light of these pillars of our society but personally i don't think it is okay to treat fellow human beings (i don't care if they are men or women) in the manner that has been reported here (and yes that doesn include DingoDan's Whatabout!). Maybe the women didn't really mind and knew what was expected of them on the night. This, for me, doesn't excuse the disrespectful behaviour of those that are supposed to be leaders in our community.

"Money for hospitals? Sure I need a tax right off..... But I am also going to need a night out with my pals where I can grope some pretty poor people."

wow....lets turn this into a class war issue.

This wasn't a working mans club and listening to Shelagh Fogarty's programme yesterday the ladies phoning up , some of whom had worked at events like this in the past and at this particular one ,were far from being "poor ". A lot of them who called in were from the escort agency industry and knew that it can get out of hand and in most cases knew that a swift knee to the privates worked..

I am not condoning this in any shape or form however time is moving on and maybe the days of gentlemen's clubs are a thing of the past. Certainly behaviour as to what is acceptable and what is not is changing and for the better, but just reflects what is going on in society.

I wonder what will come next...outlawing lap dancing clubs, "strip joints", that sort of thing. maybe society has moved on so that these establishments are archaic ...after all the propagation of free porn on the internet has taken away the titillation factor which when we were students, the Friday lunchtime "events" at the pub on lewes road, down from college, were heaving with men and young lads

 

[soistes]

Wow, what a fantastic pice of journalism! I've never read such contrived drivel in my life. Whats the FT doing covering this story, who actualy really cares. Go to many a Rugby Club dinner up and down the country and see how life really is. Has anyone been arrested, has anyone made a complaint? Its really none of our business what went on there between consenting adults and as for the Tory MP who was marched infront of the PM, I would have had more respect for him if he had said he had a great time and was planning to go to the event next year and by the way PM it raised £1.2m more than your putting into the NHS. never mind that'll another few more dead children because of lack of funding because some nobody journalist was offended. What have we all become, blokes are being nutured, people scared of saying anything, people offended on behalf of others. Perhaps that journalist Ms i've forgotten your name already would liked to have come to war with me and complained about the violence.
These journalists live in some parallel, hedonistic universe. Get real and take a look at yourself, I bet you're a bundle of laughs on a night out!!

I thought it was a good piece of journalism, and the fact that it was the newspaper of the City establishment rather than the Guardian that did it, does indeed show that the world is changing (a bit) for the better, and this has been confirmed to some extent by the response to the article. Of course there has been a backlash in favour of the corporate sleazebags and their "right to grope" (exemplified by some of the inevitable comments on this NSC thread). Like it or not, however, it's increasingly the case that it's the rugby club (and Presidents club) dinners that exist in some parallel universe that's withering away. The real world has moved (or at least is moving) on. Hence the massive scramble among the corporate and political world to distance themselves from this particular hot potato.
The charitable donations are neither here nor there - if these business people want to give to charity, they can easily do it directly. No earthly reason why it has to come through a vehicle like the Presidents club.

 

[dingodan]

It makes one wonder how some of the posters on here have treated women during their lives to deem this behaviour defensible.
There seems to be a real fear by some on here that people are becoming empowered against this behaviour.

As an aside, spoof or not it's an odd account to set up just so you can get away with making jokes about a man who , among other things, visited hospitals for the sole purpose of raping disabled children and cancer victims. Maybe I'm a snowflake but the mods need to shut that account down. They won't though.

I was never defending the behavior, I said that quite a few times I don't condone it. But that doesn't make the outrage being expressed about it proportionate, balanced or justified.

I'm not pro sleaziness or womanizing, but this has been presented and responded to as though it were a mass sexual assault, it was nothing of the sort. You are not empowering women by being outraged about this event, in fact you are doing the cause against sexual misbehavior no favors at all if you are going to refuse to distinguish between hand holding or bum grabbing and actual sexual assault.

I don't agree with Bill Maher on everything but he sums up the problem here pretty well I think.

 

[The Clamp]

I was never defending the behavior, I said that quite a few times I don't condone it. But that doesn't make the outrage being expressed about it proportionate, balanced or justified.

I'm not pro sleaziness or womanizing, but this has been presented and responded to as though it were a mass sexual assault, it was nothing of the sort. You are not empowering women by being outraged about this event, in fact you are doing the cause against sexual misbehavior no favors at all if you are going to refuse to distinguish between hand holding or bum grabbing and actual sexual assault.

I don't agree with Bill Maher on everything but he sums up the problem here pretty well I think.

Firstly, I'm not outraged so please stop making that assumption abouot everyone that has a negative view of men molesting women. Second, the argument that it diminishes "real" sexual assault is lazy and frankly, what constitutes "real" sexual assault on an individual is not your call to make.

Thirdly, where has this been "made out to be a mass sexual assault"? The journalist did a fantastic job of describing the event. Where are the claims of mass assault form her or anyone else?

Really, I know you are well meaning, or at least I'll assume you are but attitudes like yours are part of the problem. You need to think a little wider.

If a woman went to this event as a hostess or whatever capacity and she did not like the way men groped her or asked her to bed or showed her their penis or pulled her onto their lap or grabbed her waist or put their hand up their skirt then she has the right to speak out and she has my support.

If your wife/partner were out in the pub and a bloke shoved his hand up her skirt and pulled her onto his lap how would you feel? I can't see the shruggers of this world, like yourself being much use in being able to put the bloke straight. What would you do, shake you rhead and tell your Mrs that that is life and get over it because there are "women out there being sexually assaulted, you're not one of them so stop making the cause for women's rights into a mockery with your claim that him putting his hand up your skirt is sexual assault"?

As an aside, am I alone in thinking the hand holding is really ****ing creepy? If some fat old **** was doing that to my daughter I'd seriously have to be held back. Holding hands is a very intimate thing, some crsuty old ****er assuming they could do that actually makes me feel a bit nauseated.

 

[BLOCK F]

Firstly, I'm not outraged so please stop making that assumption abouot everyone that has a negative view of men molesting women. Second, the argument that it diminishes "real" sexual assault is lazy and frankly, what constitutes "real" sexual assault on an individual is not your call to make.

Thirdly, where has this been "made out to be a mass sexual assault"? The journalist did a fantastic job of describing the event. Where are the claims of mass assault form her or anyone else?

Really, I know you are well meaning, or at least I'll assume you are but attitudes like yours are part of the problem. You need to think a little wider.

If a woman went to this event as a hostess or whatever capacity and she did not like the way men groped her or asked her to bed or showed her their penis or pulled her onto their lap or grabbed her waist or put their hand up their skirt then she has the right to speak out and she has my support.

If your wife/partner were out in the pub and a bloke shoved his hand up her skirt and pulled her onto his lap how would you feel? I can't see the shruggers of this world, like yourself being much use in being able to put the bloke straight. What would you do, shake you rhead and tell your Mrs that that is life and get over it because there are "women out there being sexually assaulted, you're not one of them so stop making the cause for women's rights into a mockery with your claim that him putting his hand up your skirt is sexual assault"?

As an aside, am I alone in thinking the hand holding is really ****ing creepy? If some fat old **** was doing that to my daughter I'd seriously have to be held back. Holding hands is a very intimate thing, some crsuty old ****er assuming they could do that actually makes me feel a bit nauseated.

No doubt your daughter would not be in the line of work that these hostesses were. I really can't get too worked up about some crusty old bu---r, holding the hand of a hostess at a do like this and quite frankly, I dare say neither can the girls!

 

[dingodan]

Firstly, I'm not outraged so please stop making that assumption abouot everyone that has a negative view of men molesting women. Second, the argument that it diminishes "real" sexual assault is lazy and frankly, what constitutes "real" sexual assault on an individual is not your call to make.

Thirdly, where has this been "made out to be a mass sexual assault"? The journalist did a fantastic job of describing the event. Where are the claims of mass assault form her or anyone else?

Really, I know you are well meaning, or at least I'll assume you are but attitudes like yours are part of the problem. You need to think a little wider.

If a woman went to this event as a hostess or whatever capacity and she did not like the way men groped her or asked her to bed or showed her their penis or pulled her onto their lap or grabbed her waist or put their hand up their skirt then she has the right to speak out and she has my support.

If your wife/partner were out in the pub and a bloke shoved his hand up her skirt and pulled her onto his lap how would you feel? I can't see the shruggers of this world, like yourself being much use in being able to put the bloke straight. What would you do, shake you rhead and tell your Mrs that that is life and get over it because there are "women out there being sexually assaulted, you're not one of them so stop making the cause for women's rights into a mockery with your claim that him putting his hand up your skirt is sexual assault"?

As an aside, am I alone in thinking the hand holding is really ****ing creepy? If some fat old **** was doing that to my daughter I'd seriously have to be held back. Holding hands is a very intimate thing, some crsuty old ****er assuming they could do that actually makes me feel a bit nauseated.

Yeah you don't sound in the least bit outraged.

I heard it referred to as, sexual abuse, sexual assault and sexual harassment on the BBC yesterday.

You are refusing to distinguish to the point of dishonesty. They were not "Out at the pub", were they. They were "hostessing", having made sure they were wearing the required underwear.

If that happened to my wife while she was "Out at the pub" yes I'd set the guy straight, as you put it. But if it happened to her while she was hostessing at the Presidents Club, while wearing the required underwear, most of my questions would be for her tbh.

 

[Hamilton]

No doubt your daughter would not be in the line of work that these hostesses were. I really can't get too worked up about some crusty old bu---r, holding the hand of a hostess at a do like this and quite frankly, I dare say neither can the girls!

Do you think that all women that work as hostesses at events are happy to hold hands with men that attend? Is that your view of them? Of them all? Of every woman who has ever sought employment as a hostess at a corporate event?

 

[A1X]

"Journalist" Camilla Long claimed this wasn't news or important. She got told in no uncertain terms she was wrong.

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/01/24/replies-journalist-satisfying-things-presidents-club-story/

 

[dingodan]

Do you think that all women that work as hostesses at events are happy to hold hands with men that attend? Is that your view of them? Of them all? Of every woman who has ever sought employment as a hostess at a corporate event?

What would you say to a man who took a job as a "host" at an all women's event and was told to he needed to be muscly and attractive, and had to wear particular underwear, and he told you that one of those women held his hand? Or even grabbed his bum?

You would have enough respect for him to know that a) he's not likely to be so naive as to be surprised, and b) he can probably handle it.

How about extending the same respect to women.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I thought it was a good piece of journalism, and the fact that it was the newspaper of the City establishment rather than the Guardian that did it, does indeed show that the world is changing (a bit) for the better, and this has been confirmed to some extent by the response to the article. Of course there has been a backlash in favour of the corporate sleazebags and their "right to grope" (exemplified by some of the inevitable comments on this NSC thread). Like it or not, however, it's increasingly the case that it's the rugby club (and Presidents club) dinners that exist in some parallel universe that's withering away. The real world has moved (or at least is moving) on. Hence the massive scramble among the corporate and political world to distance themselves from this particular hot potato.
The charitable donations are neither here nor there - if these business people want to give to charity, they can easily do it directly. No earthly reason why it has to come through a vehicle like the Presidents club.

On the contrary, I thought it was a dreadful piece of journalism, designed mainly to benefit the writer. It has no bearing on me or 99.999% of people in this country. Where is the counter arguement, the balance or even the slightest reference to history, but the writer has been seen on television and quoted on the radio. Who has this event hurt? held behind closed doors. As for your assumption that this is a thing of the past, clearly not as it took place in central London this weekend, pushing these events underground does not eradicate them. this is not an equal rights arguement this is just another way of promulgating the feminist agenda, which is about as far away from the arguement of womens rights as can be got. Weak politicians scampering away from this, frightened people rearing against it and more money lost to charity, that money will not be replaced. Are you deaf to the chanting at the Amex at every home game, are you not offended, do you complain or do you suck it up because to complain would make you stand out. Peoples values are all over the place in todays world, they are not offended, they choose to be offended.
As my father was offered an anti racist sticker at the Amex some seasons ago, he declined to accept or wear it, strange looks from the purveyor of the stickers, my father informed him that he was not a racist and did not need to tell everyone that he wasn't. We're starting to loose the ability to choose, ala George Orwell 1984.

 

[Hamilton]

What would you say to a man who took a job as a "host" at an all women's event and was told to he needed to be muscly and attractive, and had to wear particular underwear, and he told you that one of those women held his hand? Or even grabbed his bum?

You would have enough respect for him to know that a) he's not likely to be so naive as to be surprised, and b) he can probably handle it.

How about extending the same respect to women.

That's irrelevant to the question I asked.

The points you are trying to make are different. You are implying that every woman who accepted employment at this event knew that she would be groped by the men attending; that they either a) went into the work in the knowledge they would have to put up with unwarranted or sought after advance or b) went into the work because they saw those advances as a natural part of the job.

You may not have said it in your posts (I've not read them all), but you are suggesting that by natural extension the hostesses were little more than hired prostitutes and so it was probably their core business.

Sadly, the world we live in stills sees need for hostesses, and it's a free country. You see them on F1 podiums and at corporate events etc. The requirement is usually always to fit some idea of what attractive looks like. Am I now to assume that they are all happy for [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION] to put his hand up their skirt.

This was an event for a bunch of businessmen to behave boorishly. It was sexist and disgraceful. These same captains of industry will be back in their workplaces today, sending out missives on how employees should and shouldn't behave. Putting aside the disgraceful misogyny, they should be held to account for their behaviour.

We have a long way to go before we all - men and women - learn to behave with a degree of self respect.