[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[TomandJerry]

Highly doubt this. There is nobody better. Take this as a damning indictment of the current Tory lot, rather than any sort of praise for Sunak. There is nobody with “clean hands”. Everyone with a chance of displacing Sunak is stained by the current leadership’s abject failure in government.

The only option is to brave this election out, take their medicine, and start afresh by getting the old guard out and completely new, untainted faces leading in opposition.

BJ and his faction will be making noises about leadership contest no doubt

 

[The Clamp]

Have you ever seen such a sore loser?….

 

[Weststander]

Crikey, the turn outs, 37% and 38%. I looked up random by-elections in the 1980’s and 1990’s, all marginals, 60% to 70% turnouts.

Have many millions disengaged?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Whilst crunching down my bowl of Bran flakes as i watch the breakfast news regarding these two By-elections results it's interesting to see the performance or lack of it from the Liberal Dems is this the result of AWOL Ed Davey and The Post Office scandal as they would normally pick up around 10%+ of the vote. Secondly i believe that Caroline Lucas is set to stand down at the next general election now i understand that Lucas has a healthy majority in her seat is this a genuine Green vote or more of a personal vote ?

 

[A1X]

I wonder if the Tories will try take Rishi out between now and the general election due to the 28.5 point swing we've seen...

I reckon if they try this Rishi is straight up the palace to ask for an election

 

[nwgull]

Have you ever seen such a sore loser?….

I'm saving a days leave for the Friday after GE night. I intend to stay up all night watching interviews like this as various Tory arseholes lose their seats. Even JRM is looking less than certain to be an MP in the next parliament.

Crikey, the turn outs, 37% and 38%. I looked up random by-elections in the 1980’s and 1990’s, all marginals, 60% to 70% turnouts.

Have many millions disengaged?

70% would be a fairly average turnout for a GE, but I though that by-elections were always quite low.

I reckon if they try this Rishi is straight up the palace to ask for an election

Can he do that? I thought it'd need to be voted through parliament (not that there'd be much opposition from most opposition parties).

 

[A1X]

Can he do that? I thought it'd need to be voted through parliament.

Since the Fixed Term Parliament act was repealed by Johnson post-2019 the PM can call one whenever he wants again, just like pre-2010

 

[mikeyjh]

Have you ever seen such a sore loser?….

"Since Orpington in 1963/4, We've got used to By-Election results being erratic" You're getting humped in every one you chump, they're not in the slightest bit erratic!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

"Since Orpington in 1963/4, We've got used to By-Election results being erratic" You're getting humped in every one you chump, they're not in the slightest bit erratic!

Yes, and the Tories lost the General Election in 1964, you haunted pencil.

 

[nwgull]

Since the Fixed Term Parliament act was repealed by Johnson post-2019 the PM can call one whenever he wants again, just like pre-2010

Cheers. Under the FTPA, we'd have been having a GE this May, I think. I'm fully aware that Sunak is entitled to hang on to the bitter end and will probably wait until late autumn and can technically call an election in mid January 2025, but what sort of person can honestly carry on with governing the country in the belief that they have any sort moral madate to be PM when they've not won a GE and their party has been getting trounced in every opinion poll for 2 years, as well as in a number of by-elections and local elections?

It's well known that he doesn't need the cash, and it can't even be doing anything for his ego at this stage. You'd surely imagine that there must be some thoughts in his head towards doing the honourable thing and calling a GE at the conventional time of year in May to coincide with the locals (which will be another trouncing) and get it over and done with,

 

[TomandJerry]

Cheers. Under the FTPA, we'd have been having a GE this May, I think. I'm fully aware that Sunak is entitled to hang on to the bitter end and will probably wait until late autumn and can technically call an election in mid January 2025, but what sort of person can honestly carry on with governing the country in the belief that they have any sort moral madate to be PM when they've not won a GE and their party has been getting trounced in every opinion poll for 2 years, as well as in a number of by-elections and local elections?

It's well known that he doesn't need the cash, and it can't even be doing anything for his ego at this stage. You'd surely imagine that there must be some thoughts in his head towards doing the honourable thing and calling a GE at the conventional time of year in May to coincide with the locals (which will be another trouncing) and get it over and done with,

I believe the longer he leaves it the more chance a rebel faction will try to remove him as PM via letters of no confidence following defeats in by elections

 

[KZNSeagull]

Crikey, the turn outs, 37% and 38%. I looked up random by-elections in the 1980’s and 1990’s, all marginals, 60% to 70% turnouts.

Have many millions disengaged?

Dreadful turnout. The actual number of votes for Labour in Wellingborough went up by 107. (13,844 yesterday to 13,737 in 2019). In Kingswood the vote for Labour went down by 5,316 (11,176 yesterday, 16,492 in 2019)
The Conservative vote has, unsurprisingly, collapsed. The "Can't be bothered to vote" party is winning hands down.

 

[A1X]

Cheers. Under the FTPA, we'd have been having a GE this May, I think. I'm fully aware that Sunak is entitled to hang on to the bitter end and will probably wait until late autumn and can technically call an election in mid January 2025, but what sort of person can honestly carry on with governing the country in the belief that they have any sort moral madate to be PM when they've not won a GE and their party has been getting trounced in every opinion poll for 2 years, as well as in a number of by-elections and local elections?

It's well known that he doesn't need the cash, and it can't even be doing anything for his ego at this stage. You'd surely imagine that there must be some thoughts in his head towards doing the honourable thing and calling a GE at the conventional time of year in May to coincide with the locals (which will be another trouncing) and get it over and done with,

I also think he’ll hang on if he can, but I also think his ego won’t handle being toppled and he’ll want to lead the party in the campaign. If that means bringing that forward, then he’ll do that.

 

[abc]

Crikey, the turn outs, 37% and 38%. I looked up random by-elections in the 1980’s and 1990’s, all marginals, 60% to 70% turnouts.

Have many millions disengaged?

This is now a far more important subject for discussion. We are not a democracy (or at least not a functioning one) if less than 40% of the electorate are engaged enough to vote.
I believe PR is essential so that everyone feels their vote counts, but in the short term we all need to be able to trust the political class. A good enough reason to vote Labour but I’m not convinced there is anyone in the Westminster sewer that is what a normal person would call ‘honest’

 

[mikeyjh]

Cheers. Under the FTPA, we'd have been having a GE this May, I think. I'm fully aware that Sunak is entitled to hang on to the bitter end and will probably wait until late autumn and can technically call an election in mid January 2025, but what sort of person can honestly carry on with governing the country in the belief that they have any sort moral madate to be PM when they've not won a GE and their party has been getting trounced in every opinion poll for 2 years, as well as in a number of by-elections and local elections?

It's well known that he doesn't need the cash, and it can't even be doing anything for his ego at this stage. You'd surely imagine that there must be some thoughts in his head towards doing the honourable thing and calling a GE at the conventional time of year in May to coincide with the locals (which will be another trouncing) and get it over and done with,

This article has probably been often quoted but I'll do it again:- https://www.theguardian.com/educati...s-boris-johnson-sad-little-boys-richard-beard

Sunak will believe that he is right, and we are wrong (or rather, irrelevant), he is conditioned to do so. Like his predecessor but one, they will never doubt their own abilities and thoughts.

 

[TomandJerry]

This article has probably been often quoted but I'll do it again:- https://www.theguardian.com/educati...s-boris-johnson-sad-little-boys-richard-beard

Sunak will believe that he is right, and we are wrong (or rather, irrelevant), he is conditioned to do so. Like his predecessor but one, they will never doubt their own abilities and thoughts.

I don't think Rishi is at the levels of BJ.

BJ had to be forced out squealing by the men in grey suits

 

[jcdenton08]

This is now a far more important subject for discussion. We are not a democracy (or at least not a functioning one) if less than 40% of the electorate are engaged enough to vote.
I believe PR is essential so that everyone feels their vote counts, but in the short term we all need to be able to trust the political class. A good enough reason to vote Labour but I’m not convinced there is anyone in the Westminster sewer that is what a normal person would call ‘honest’

That’s an interesting one, isn’t it? Some could argue that the right to political indifference is the very soul of democracy.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't think Rishi is at the levels of BJ.

BJ had to be forced out squealing by the men in grey suits

Well that's certainly damning with faint praise

From my experience supreme confidence based on no knowledge or experience is a common trait that is encouraged amongst the 'better' public schools. Rishi hadn't even been an MP for 5 years when Johnson made him Chancellor.

I think you're right about Sunak, but from what I understand, he is still way beyond May and even Cameron in his complete belief that he is right and everyone else is wrong. (I also heard some great stories of Kwarteng being positively Bendtneresque in that regard )

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It's hilarious

Tories getting a pumping and reform getting smashed as well, whilst taking a good number of votes off the Tories.

 

[Nobby]

Dreadful turnout. The actual number of votes for Labour in Wellingborough went up by 107. (13,844 yesterday to 13,737 in 2019). In Kingswood the vote for Labour went down by 5,316 (11,176 yesterday, 16,492 in 2019)
The Conservative vote has, unsurprisingly, collapsed. The "Can't be bothered to vote" party is winning hands down.

This is what continues to worry me.
Who will they vote for when they can be bothered to vote.