[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Weststander]

I thought it was more to do with white female versus brown male. No contest.

But then Patel and Braverman seemed very popular amongst the loons?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Good.

Don't get me wrong, the police should definitely be involved in enforcing wider security (after all the Government is still in residence) and keeping the perimeter safe, while dealing with any actual law-breaking within (e.g. someone trying to attack someone). But heckling a politician is not a crime, therefore the police should not be involved in that.

It's akin to a match at the Amex. The police definitely should be heavily involved in securing the place up to the turnstiles, but once inside their role is much reduced. I wouldn't expect to be escorted out by police for having a bottle with a top on in the stands, for example.

Having a bottle top in the Amex is a major crime compared to muttering ‘this is trash’ to yourself whilst the mighty Braverman is in full flow!

 

[Nobby]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

 

[Weststander]

Well summarised, its been a gradual process. Whilst I hate Farage the guy is a very strong communicator and could well become leader assuming they lose the election. They will shift to the right, the moderates are in decline.

Starmer clearly sees the centre ground is well and truly vacated and sees the opportunity.

My nature is to like certainty and clarity. So I’m glad the cat’s out of the bag. Since 1992 there’s been a struggle with the Redwood’s & pals fighting from within. Mass immigration (I’m not a Brexiteer or close the borders person btw …. just that the numbers don’t lie) gave these fringe characters their opportunity. They’ve almost ‘won’ in taking control of the party.

I wonder if we could end up with several Commons in a row with say Labour 60% of seats, New Right Wing Tory 25%, others 15%? Other than squeezing out the Right, I don’t know if that’s a good thing long term, other voices need real power. My preference would be a Commons dominated with parties and MP’s from social democrats to centre old Tories.

 

[rogersix]

Well there are, but look at the diet of b******* they are being fed. Like gun toting American who will vote for their children to have 100x more risk when at school than a comparable country, or a hyperpatriotic Russian, convinced of their nations divine right to murder, rape and subjugate what they want from eastern Europe, there is one common truth we can discern.

Brainwashing works.

It works fantastically well. Sure it's a painstaking process. It takes years and years of dripfeeding, from multiple outlets, but you can get millions of people to genuinely deny demonstrable truths

the dupes do have to be willing

 

[BBassic]

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

Not me.

It ain't over, till it's over and you can never underestimate the voting populace of this country and their desire to harm themselves.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

the dupes do have to be willing

Not really.

A dominant political party together with a compliant media can drag people who would never have considered themselves right wing along with them. It just takes, lots of time and strong consistently reinforced narratives and it's quite possible to get swathes of a countries population to believe what you want them to believe.

There are plenty of examples of this through history.

 

[Si Gull]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

Yes, they can. A Tory defeat is by no means guaranteed. I suspect they won't win enough seats for a majority but as for a trouncing, I'm not so sure. An irrational deep seated fear of The Left will ensure many blue votes are cast. Also, the dog whistle pronouncements of Braverman and Co. will whip up enough anti-woke sentiment to garner the blue rinse/DM votes.

 

[Simster]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

Yes, they have the full weight of the media on their side. Plus the Conservative vote is always underestimated when polling day comes round.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

It would be the "best" political comeback of all time. A labour majority is 1/2, so on that basis a comeback is unlikely

However there's a lot that can still go wrong for Labour.

The press will be gearing up for a full year of ferocious attacks on Keir Starmer. Any small mistakes or any message indiscpline will be ruthlessly pounced on

Meanwhile Sunak isn't stupid (well ok, he's not the most talented PM in history, but he has a certain cunning). He'll think he can keep a chunk of the red wall voting tory with immigration scare stories and pro car policies.

 

[beorhthelm]

he threw himself out?

i reckon he wanted to make a protest, and told pepole he would.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

i reckon he wanted to make a protest, and told pepole he would.

He wasn't very good at protesting, then, with a quiet mutter under his breath.

If he was going to stage something like that, at least stand up and shout.

 

[rogersix]

Not really.

A dominant political party together with a compliant media can drag people who would never have considered themselves right wing along with them. It just takes, lots of time and strong consistently reinforced narratives and it's quite possible to get swathes of a countries population to believe what you want them to believe.

There are plenty of examples of this through history.

a lot of peolpe want to believe the lie before the lie is lied, they have to be willing, or they may fact check

 

[abc]

This country of ours is a mess.
A real mess

Someone put my mind at rest.

Have a governing party ever, in UK politics, with such negative poll ratings a year from a General Election, gone on to get re-elected?

Everyone here seems to accept these filthy scum Tories will get trounced, thrashed, indeed buried, at the next election.

So can they recover in the polls when it really matters?

No. Whilst there are still many with natural Tory sympathies left, polls show that the majority of these want a change of government. But you are right to not think its all a done deal, the NSC echo chamber is not necessarily representative of all voters.

 

[nicko31]

It would be the "best" political comeback of all time. A labour majority is 1/2, so on that basis a comeback is unlikely

However there's a lot that can still go wrong for Labour.

The press will be gearing up for a full year of ferocious attacks on Keir Starmer. Any small mistakes or any message indiscpline will be ruthlessly pounced on

Meanwhile Sunak isn't stupid (well ok, he's not the most talented PM in history, but he has a certain cunning). He'll think he can keep a chunk of the red wall voting tory with immigration scare stories and pro car policies.

Remember Starmer's non-curry, Dacre's Mail went with 12 days straight on their front page and it ended in nothing. Labour has to contend with a lot of headwinds from a hostile press, its not a level playing field and regulation is weak. Imagine if Michelle Mone was a Labour Lord and they'd be in power??

There is also voter suppression with the ID requirement to try and stop the young and poor from voting. This should not be under estimated...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

a lot of peolpe want to believe the lie before the lie is lied, they have to be willing, or they may fact check

People aren't satisfied when life isn't going their way, so need someone to blame.
The youngsters nowadays
Old people
Immigrants nicking jobs
Immigrants taking our benefits
Immigrants taking our place in the queue for the NHS

etc etc

Rarely do people blame politicians, apart from the 'They're all the same'

The same people who can't be bothered turning out to vote because 'it makes no difference'.

 

[Stato]

Plus the Conservative vote is always underestimated when polling day comes round.

Not always:

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Remember Starmer's non-curry, Dacre's Mail went with 12 days straight on their front page and it ended in nothing. Labour has to contend with a lot of headwinds from a hostile press, its not a level playing field and regulation is weak. Imagine if Michelle Mone was a Labour Lord and they'd be in power??

There is also voter suppression with the ID requirement to try and stop the young and poor from voting. This should not be under estimated...

Lots of attacks on Starmer going on right now. We're back to the 'private education' and what did his parents do.
Attacks coming from the right and the left.

 

[beorhthelm]

It would be the "best" political comeback of all time. A labour majority is 1/2, so on that basis a comeback is unlikely

However there's a lot that can still go wrong for Labour.

The press will be gearing up for a full year of ferocious attacks on Keir Starmer. Any small mistakes or any message indiscpline will be ruthlessly pounced on

Meanwhile Sunak isn't stupid (well ok, he's not the most talented PM in history, but he has a certain cunning). He'll think he can keep a chunk of the red wall voting tory with immigration scare stories and pro car policies.

from state of social media, looks like their biggest threat is from the left that dont like Starmer. i can see him picking up votes from the centre and losing from the traditional core.

 

[rogersix]

i reckon he wanted to make a protest, and told pepole he would.

like the police?