[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Stato]

Can't abide champagne socialists...

Yeah, rich people in favour of sharing their money and power with others for the benefit of all. Who needs them!

 

[The Clamp]

If the public elect a Labour Government then they will have looked at the issues and acted accordingly. If they elect a Tory Government then that same public will have been ‘gaslit.’ That’s basically your position and it is one shared by a number of other posters. That’s why there isn’t much point in discussing politics on NSC.

Yet, here you are again, discussing politics

 

[Audax]

Will be interesting to see what happens with the polling once a new leader has been chosen. At the moment, the Tories are suffering - what was a 6-7 point lead for Labour while BJ was still PM has now blown out to 10 points - the largest lead for Labour in an awfully long time.

Is this just a factor of there being a power vacuum currently, or are we seeing that despite everything Boris was still a vote-puller and now he's out we're seeing the true state of affairs when it comes to Tory support?

 

[A1X]

Can't abide champagne socialists...

What's wrong with everyone having champagne?

 

[KZNSeagull]

As Chancellor, right?

He wasn't beholden to the whims of the various factions with the party like he would be as PM.

I'm not saying he won't do what he can; just it's a different job with different considerations.

I suppose. He has always said (as Chancellor) that more help will be required this autumn once we know what the price cap is going to go up by, I really don't think him getting the top job will change that.

 

[carlzeiss]

The two women and the rest of bumble****’s cabinet got there because they were useless, no way was anyone of any intelligence or competence going to get a cabinet position. bumble**** did what Trump did and so rounded himself with sycophants and idiots and in most cases they are both.


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So are they also " Bame traitors " as quoted here #13382

 

[carlzeiss]

Perhaps [MENTION=13923]carlzeiss[/MENTION] can educate us all on what was sooo bad about New Labour.

Seem to recall our participation in the Iraq war being rather unpopular back in the day .

 

[Eric the meek]

So are they also " Bame traitors " as quoted here #13382

I know it won't happen, but it would be interesting to see the initial thoughts on cabinet appointments of the three remaining candidates.

For me, if any one of them intends to keep Patel in any position at all in the new cabinet, they would be making a profound error of judgement.

 

[usernamed]

If the public elect a Labour Government then they will have looked at the issues and acted accordingly. If they elect a Tory Government then that same public will have been ‘gaslit.’ That’s basically your position and it is one shared by a number of other posters. That’s why there isn’t much point in discussing politics on NSC.

Can you honestly justify, on any grounds, voting for this incarnation of the Conservative Party?

I understand the basic tenets of Conservatism and they’re good values, albeit taken too far they can become cruelty or indifference to human suffering by those not capable of making sensible decisions for themselves. However, any “positive” value can become a vice if taken too far, this is not unique to Conservatism.

The fact of the matter is, that what we have in power at the present time, has nothing to do with conservatism, this incarnation of the Conservative Party are the national equivalent of Bellotti, Archer and Stanley. Asset strippers, doing to the country what was being done to Brighton all those years ago.

What values do this incarnation of the Conservative Party have that you share?

Name a policy area where things have improved from 12 years ago?

You seem decent, what I would describe as an “old school Conservative” rather like my ex-parents in law. I understand the PotG and Mouldy’s of this world, the old “pig with a blue rosette” adage applies in their case, but what worries me is that people I respect, who I would describe as thinking Conservatives still seem unprepared to abandon the ship, potentially leading to more of the same.

There was a time where even with my politics being slightly centre-left it felt like more New Labour would not be a great idea, and I voted otherwise as conscience dictated. If those who have enough about them to see what’s happening continue to sit on their hands and legitimise this, then what’s being done in our name will not easily be restored.

 

[nicko31]

No. They can’t be gaslit again.

However, the 160k Tory party members will surely vote for selfish tax cuts rather than the seemingly prudent economics of Sunak. The country is going to be in a pretty awful state by the time Sir Kier takes the resigns.

I see climate change barely makes the top 10 in the Tory members priority.

A shameless group of individuals that are now holding us all to ransom. How much longer are we prepared to put up with this system?

 

[rogersix]

Can't abide champagne socialists...

You're expecting him to give away all his money?

A bit odd?

 

[nicko31]

Ministers to break promise to give MPs a final say before approving trade deal with Australia...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/australia-trade-deal-brexit-truss-b2124302.html

There is no way Australia will waive this through without scrutiny first. God help UK food security, farmers screwed over...

 

[Hugo Rune]

If the public elect a Labour Government then they will have looked at the issues and acted accordingly. If they elect a Tory Government then that same public will have been ‘gaslit.’ That’s basically your position and it is one shared by a number of other posters. That’s why there isn’t much point in discussing politics on NSC.

I was referring the public being gaslit by a Truss Government which essentially, will be a weirder but equally dangerous and incompetent version of the current government.

So you got my position completely wrong as usual misinterpreting it on purpose to suit your regular dull dogma around all NSC being attached to parties no matter their politicians or policies.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Seem to recall our participation in the Iraq war being rather unpopular back in the day .

Aided and abetted by parliament, I seem recall the Tories were very much for the invasion.


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[Deportivo Seagull]

So are they also " Bame traitors " as quoted here #13382

They may or may not be, but why anyone from the BAME community would have anything to do with the shit shower that is the Tory right is beyond me. It seems a bit like a turkeys voting for Christmas.


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[carlzeiss]

They may or may not be, but why anyone from the BAME community would have anything to do with the shit shower that is the Tory right is beyond me. It seems a bit like a turkeys voting for Christmas.


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Perhaps they don't consider themselves as " BAME's" but as individuals capable of making their own decisions .

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Can you honestly justify, on any grounds, voting for this incarnation of the Conservative Party?

I understand the basic tenets of Conservatism and they’re good values, albeit taken too far they can become cruelty or indifference to human suffering by those not capable of making sensible decisions for themselves. However, any “positive” value can become a vice if taken too far, this is not unique to Conservatism.

The fact of the matter is, that what we have in power at the present time, has nothing to do with conservatism, this incarnation of the Conservative Party are the national equivalent of Bellotti, Archer and Stanley. Asset strippers, doing to the country what was being done to Brighton all those years ago.

What values do this incarnation of the Conservative Party have that you share?

Name a policy area where things have improved from 12 years ago?

You seem decent, what I would describe as an “old school Conservative” rather like my ex-parents in law. I understand the PotG and Mouldy’s of this world, the old “pig with a blue rosette” adage applies in their case, but what worries me is that people I respect, who I would describe as thinking Conservatives still seem unprepared to abandon the ship, potentially leading to more of the same.

There was a time where even with my politics being slightly centre-left it felt like more New Labour would not be a great idea, and I voted otherwise as conscience dictated. If those who have enough about them to see what’s happening continue to sit on their hands and legitimise this, then what’s being done in our name will not easily be restored.

Lots of interesting points. Thank you for your reply. I suppose my quick answer is that I will be voting Labour at the next election. I share very few values with the Conservative Party. I instinctively dislike and mistrust rugby playing, public school types and have done so since I met quite a few at university. My social views tend to liberal on most issues but like many people I have found myself on occasion voting Tory because of economics. Even this has diminished over time as I am a big believer in regulation, particularly of my old industry which was finance. I’m also happy to pay more tax and always have been. I agree with your analogy about asset stripping and at times feel it is the 1980s all over again. Labour under Blair weren’t entirely innocent with their internal markets in public services. The Tories have gleefully picked up this particular baton. All Labour needed to do was find a leader to move the party in a direction that I could back and they would get my vote. In Keir Starmer I think that is what is happening. When we get nearer the election and debates are conducted on policy I think you will see more 2019 Tory voters like myself abandoning the ship or switching ships as I would put it. The outcome of the current leadership election just feels irrelevant. Perhaps most people, us included, have more in common than one might think from the divisive world of the internet.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I was referring the public being gaslit by a Truss Government which essentially, will be a weirder but equally dangerous and incompetent version of the current government.

So you got my position completely wrong as usual misinterpreting it on purpose to suit your regular dull dogma around all NSC being attached to parties no matter their politicians or policies.

My point still applies. It would be the same public voting, regardless of who they vote for. You simply have contempt for disagreement which is quite a common frailty of many of your political persuasion. I am sorry if you find my opinion dull but I’m sure I will get through my day somehow.

 

[Medwayseagull]

Seem to recall our participation in the Iraq war being rather unpopular back in the day .

You mean the one that took place before Tony Blair won a clear majority for a third term ?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Perhaps they don't consider themselves as " BAME's" but as individuals capable of making their own decisions .

But I’m still a little troubled by this.

Using words like traitor is taking too far, and yes people aren’t defined by their ethnicity, they are defined how they want to define themselves, just like we all are.

However, the thing that troubles me is that people who’s direct descendants were given safe passage into this country, taken in, educated etc etc, then representing a party which is open about creating a hostile environment and deporting people in similar trouble to Africa. I understand why people who are on danger of being deported, or who are being demonised or anyone who feels solidarity in their plight would then describe these people in unflattering terms