[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[clapham_gull]

Yeah, my wife and I both work in the public sector and can confirm that politely respecting people’s wishes really isn’t difficult. Any politician getting involved in this issue just encourages us to switch channels.

Thank you.

.. and it's incredibly easy to get involved in the fierce debate.

 

[beorhthelm]

Agreed.

The country can have a snap General Election organised, campaigned and dusted in 3 weeks with a 50 million ish electorate. But the Tories take 13 weeks for a 200,00 ish electorate.

And, while I’m here, why is FPTP the best electoral process for the country to elect a leader, but the Tories use a different system. ( I admit, I don’t know what the system is called, if it’s called anything at all, I just know it’s not FPTP)

multiple transferable votes?

 

[Eric the meek]

I feel like I've moved to the USA. #ready4rishi, #pm4pm. If they're trying to reach the Millennials or anyone whose 1st windows operating system was newer than Windows 95, cringeworthy hashtags are not going to help their cause. It's like watching an American sitcom based around which kid is going to be elected leader of the school council!

They have to appear relevant and in tune with the times. The optics are so important now. What they actually say matters little. We are in the era of three word slogans, cringeworthy hashtags, because that's what the audience expects to see, and that's what works.

Websites, videos, Boris driving a bulldozer through a wall, portraits from below the chin, folded arms in front of a Union Jack (even if it is the wrong way round Penny), it's all bollox. All of it.

Gone is the appreciation of a strong performance at the despatch box. Cameron was a master at it. So was Churchill. Imagine - changing a parliament of minds - with the power of your spoken word.
We are losing those skills.

 

[chip]

Well, if a shrunk government isn't delivering smaller or fewer services, what is it doing? Badenoch at least had the honesty to say that if you deliver tax cuts, it means the state doing fewer things (although has not, as yet, indicated what a state under her wouldn't be doing).
Do also factor in that the state has been hammered for 12 years now by cuts which means that barristers are on strike, and may well be followed by teachers, junior doctors, nurses, ...

Oh, I hope I didn't come across as a rabid tory, I'm more green when I engage in politics. But I think your comment demonstrates what I meant by the different meaning from MPs. To me smaller government would mean, for example, that local authorities could borrow and build real social housing that suited real needs rather than be driven by some central government target or aspiration while having their autonomy severly curtailed. Similarly, the NHS should never be a political football, we just want it to work well and equitably for everyone, surely? By lower taxes, all I mean is that it is one way that you can redistribute income, would lower taxes for people on low incomes be a bad thing and why do we have such sharp step changes in taxation? I've always admired how mountain rescue and the RNLI provide such an amazing service and can't imagine a state body being able to come anywhere near them. I wasn't in any way endorsing what this bunch of crooks have in mind more reflecting that all the pontification is generally meaningless to those outside this bubble.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is bizarre. Why are we being subjected to hour by hour updates, videos, campaigning materials? We have zero impact on the outcome. They should be choosing a leader in a quiet, dignified fashion. And this process should be completed with great haste. Frankly, this whole turgid pantomime could be done and dusted within a week. It’s just the bloody Tory’s showboating and yet again, demonstrates their compulsion to celebrate themselves while the country drowns.

Another shameful chapter in the worst period this country has faced since WW2. And all for what? To replicate Boris Johnson’s carnival of vanities in all but name.

Shame. Shame.

Come now. Due process must be followed. And unto us, a new leader shall be delivered.



Praise him.

Or, errr, her.

 

[chip]

multiple transferable votes?

more like NFTs? Up for sale

 

[Is it PotG?]

They have to appear relevant and in tune with the times. The optics are so important now. What they actually say matters little. We are in the era of three word slogans, cringeworthy hashtags, because that's what the audience expects to see, and that's what works.

Websites, videos, Boris driving a bulldozer through a wall, portraits from below the chin, folded arms in front of a Union Jack (even if it is the wrong way round Penny), it's all bollox. All of it.

Gone is the appreciation of a strong performance at the despatch box. Cameron was a master at it. So was Churchill. Imagine - changing a parliament of minds - with the power of your spoken word.
We are losing those skills.

You know what we're all lacking...

 

[clapham_gull]

They have to appear relevant and in tune with the times. The optics are so important now. What they actually say matters little. We are in the era of three word slogans, cringeworthy hashtags, because that's what the audience expects to see, and that's what works.

Websites, videos, Boris driving a bulldozer through a wall, portraits from below the chin, folded arms in front of a Union Jack (even if it is the wrong way round Penny), it's all bollox. All of it.

Gone is the appreciation of a strong performance at the despatch box. Cameron was a master at it. So was Churchill. Imagine - changing a parliament of minds - with the power of your spoken word.
We are losing those skills.

All very oddly directed at an older demographic using the medium of youth who have zero impact on the result and have zero interest in it.

It sums up how utterly clueless this administration are, surrounded by young narcissistic wierdo advisers.

Only two thing matters in this debate.

1) As a Tory MP do I keep my job.
2) Will an increasingly elderly membership get my vote.

Winning the next election seems to have been blown out of the window.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh, I hope I didn't come across as a rabid tory, I'm more green when I engage in politics. But I think your comment demonstrates what I meant by the different meaning from MPs. To me smaller government would mean, for example, that local authorities could borrow and build real social housing that suited real needs rather than be driven by some central government target or aspiration while having their autonomy severly curtailed. Similarly, the NHS should never be a political football, we just want it to work well and equitably for everyone, surely? By lower taxes, all I mean is that it is one way that you can redistribute income, would lower taxes for people on low incomes be a bad thing and why do we have such sharp step changes in taxation? I've always admired how mountain rescue and the RNLI provide such an amazing service and can't imagine a state body being able to come anywhere near them. I wasn't in any way endorsing what this bunch of crooks have in mind more reflecting that all the pontification is generally meaningless to those outside this bubble.

There are genuine ideological issues at stake.

Were I a tory, this would be my take.

Smaller government? Just cut all the budgets by 20%. I think at least one of the candidates is up for this.

NHS? Socialist nonsense. Keep on underfunding it and give tax breaks for private health. While paying tribute to the fine people working for the NHS, dedicted staff (etc.).

Lower taxes? Well the rich don't (I won't repeat that trope again - but it's true). Sure, lower income tax (but put up NI - we gotta pay for the armed forces and the old bill somehow, innit?).

Rinse, mention whatabout Wislon, whatabout Benn, whatabout Scargill, whatabout Corbyn, and repeat every 5 years. Jobzagoodun.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I feel like I've moved to the USA. #ready4rishi, #pm4pm. If they're trying to reach the Millennials or anyone whose 1st windows operating system was newer than Windows 95, cringeworthy hashtags are not going to help their cause. It's like watching an American sitcom based around which kid is going to be elected leader of the school council!

I was reading about Quintin Hogg earlier today. He blew his leadership aspirations when he got his fans to wear a badge with 'Q' on it. Sunak apparently created his '#GoRishiHotMan' web presence in 2021, and I can't help feeling that this may come back to haunt him

 

[Cotton Socks]

They have to appear relevant and in tune with the times. The optics are so important now. What they actually say matters little. We are in the era of three word slogans, cringeworthy hashtags, because that's what the audience expects to see, and that's what works.

Websites, videos, Boris driving a bulldozer through a wall, portraits from below the chin, folded arms in front of a Union Jack (even if it is the wrong way round Penny), it's all bollox. All of it.

Gone is the appreciation of a strong performance at the despatch box. Cameron was a master at it. So was Churchill. Imagine - changing a parliament of minds - with the power of your spoken word.
We are losing those skills.

This is why it's so cringeworthy, they're trying to move with the times and be 'down with the kids'. The kids are bloody laughing at them! My diehard Tory father in law is laughing at them as he uses the internet. Unfortunately my 'Sun' reading parents don't use the internet unless it's for shopping. It's the first time myself and my father in law have agreed on politics. He thinks all the prospective leaders are mad and cannot understand why they think cutting taxes is a good idea when they've just put them up as we have to 'pay' for Covid. Everything is already falling apart, cutting taxes would make 'austerity' seem like fun for public services finances.

 

[Machiavelli]

Oh, I hope I didn't come across as a rabid tory, I'm more green when I engage in politics. But I think your comment demonstrates what I meant by the different meaning from MPs. To me smaller government would mean, for example, that local authorities could borrow and build real social housing that suited real needs rather than be driven by some central government target or aspiration while having their autonomy severly curtailed. Similarly, the NHS should never be a political football, we just want it to work well and equitably for everyone, surely? By lower taxes, all I mean is that it is one way that you can redistribute income, would lower taxes for people on low incomes be a bad thing and why do we have such sharp step changes in taxation? I've always admired how mountain rescue and the RNLI provide such an amazing service and can't imagine a state body being able to come anywhere near them. I wasn't in any way endorsing what this bunch of crooks have in mind more reflecting that all the pontification is generally meaningless to those outside this bubble.

No, you didn't come across as a rabid Tory, there was some nuance in your original post, and this one quoshes any doubt. My take on your things:
-- devolving spending from the centre to local authorities (a good idea) doesn't do anything to the taxation input/required, it merely devolves it; note, it was Thatcher who centralised power, and imposed a legal framework that prevents the (very sensible) idea you propose about social housing
-- same point about NHS and levels of taxation
-- cutting VAT is one of the best ways to redistribute income (without wanting to go on about her, it was 5% when Thatcher came in), otherwise targeting assets or progressive taxation also good at that.
-- RNLI, spot on; they were even held up as a model institution and form of organisation by the once Brighton resident and anarchist, Peter Kropotkin

 

[Cotton Socks]

I was reading about Quintin Hogg earlier today. He blew his leadership aspirations when he got his fans to wear a badge with 'Q' on it. Sunak apparently created his '#GoRishiHotMan' web presence in 2021, and I can't help feeling that this may come back to haunt him

#readyforrishi does sound like it would suit a male/female stripper group..... #readyforchippendales/rishi coming to the Theatre Royal! I'll look up Quintin as I have no idea who he is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

#readyforrishi does sound like it would suit a male/female stripper group..... #readyforchippendales/rishi coming to the Theatre Royal! I'll look up Quintin as I have no idea who he is.

Lord Hailsham.
You must be under 50

 

[clapham_gull]

There are genuine ideological issues at stake.

Were I a tory, this would be my take.

Smaller government? Just cut all the budgets by 20%. I think at least one of the candidates is up for this.

NHS? Socialist nonsense. Keep on underfunding it and give tax breaks for private health. While paying tribute to the fine people working for the NHS, dedicted staff (etc.).

Lower taxes? Well the rich don't (I won't repeat that trope again - but it's true). Sure, lower income tax (but put up NI - we gotta pay for the armed forces and the old bill somehow, innit?).

Rinse, mention whatabout Wislon, whatabout Benn, whatabout Scargill, whatabout Corbyn, and repeat every 5 years. Jobzagoodun.

The mess the Tories have got themselves in transcends ideology because their current leader hasn't got one.

It's a spunk as much money as possible to keep me in power because that's all I know and sort my short term friends out along the way.

Not surprising from an individual prone to maxing out his own personal financials knowing that (because of his background) he will fall on his feet again with a xenophobic column in The Telegraph knocked out in an hour, usually late.

Unfortunately that's not how you run a country, but the Conservatives (the absolute fools that they are) threw everything out the window ideologically with their usual desperation for power and obsession with Europe.

You reap what you sow and we did try to warn them. What an utter mess they are and what an utter mess they have left this country.

A leadership contest focussed on how they sort their own mess out. A general election with themselves.

No one left to blame, it's you.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Lord Hailsham.
You must be under 50

Don't be so ageist!!! Yes I'm under 50 but I'm not telling you my mothers maiden name or my year of birth.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I wander how many NSC folk are actual Conservative Party Members?

I am - so I’ll have a precious vote.

Whether you are a Tory voter or not, a new Prime Minister needs to be elected to represent this country for the next 2 years.

Which will be the 4th Prime Minister in 6 years. It’s not exactly stable is it?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Don't be so ageist!!! Yes I'm under 50 but I'm not telling you my mothers maiden name or my year of birth.

What about the name of your first pet, and the last four digits of your credit card?

 

[Cotton Socks]

What about the name of your first pet, and the last four digits of your credit card?

Yep I can tell you them! Fishy and 0666

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Which will be the 4th Prime Minister in 6 years. It’s not exactly stable is it?

Ah yes, strong and stable, I remember that.