[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[nicko31]

From a Labour perspective, she offers the greatest challenge at the next election in my opinion.

Inclined to agree. Its a tricky paradox as whoever is a challenge to Labour is more likely to be better for the country.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sounds about right to me:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...pledges-tories-labour-conservative-leadership

 

[Jim in the West]

I'm just making two points, the first of which has been made better, and with data, by [MENTION=22849]Stato[/MENTION]:
1, the beeb have been cowered by the Tories, and the notion of balance -- irrespective of whether there's a leadership election, which one party seems to have quite a few of -- is for the birds
2, the beeb is also cowered by the right-wing press which increasingly drives the news agenda (and the beeb just fits into it snugly), and it is the combination of their driving of the news agenda alongside the widespread view that there is a 'natural party of government' which allows them additional air time (ie, when in government, because they're in government, they warrant extra air time, more of their MPs taking up the news agenda, whereas when in opposition, for the sake of 'balance', they'd warrant either similar air time as Labour or, because Labour have in-built advantages because they're in government, they deserve extra).

Perhaps more fundamentally, the Chair of the BBC is a Tory donor, and a member of a Conservative think tank. The Director General is a former Tory election candidate. I'm sure they are both excellent at their jobs, and are working hard to preserve/improve the BBC. However, I'm also sure they're both sh1t scared of losing the licence fee, and therefore currently having to pander to the Government much more than they normally would.

 

[Machiavelli]

Perhaps more fundamentally, the Chair of the BBC is a Tory donor, and a member of a Conservative think tank. The Director General is a former Tory election candidate. I'm sure they are both excellent at their jobs, and are working hard to preserve/improve the BBC. However, I'm also sure they're both sh1t scared of losing the licence fee, and therefore currently having to pander to the Government much more than they normally would.

Yup. I made a similar point in a previous post, though did it less well.

 

[Lenny Rider]

The donors decided. Nadine Dorries confirmed it.

On a par with John Major’s ‘Men in Grey Suits’?

Democracy don’t you just love it?

 

[Jim in the West]

Yup. I made a similar point in a previous post, though did it less well.

Apologies - I'm just dipping in and out at the mo, and I'm sure your post was excellent!

Co-incidentally, I've just come back from a small group holiday - one of the other group members is reasonably senior in BBC News. She told me pretty much the whole of the BBC is petrified by the prospect of losing the licence fee. Great tactics from the Tories!

 

[nicko31]

Apologies - I'm just dipping in and out at the mo, and I'm sure your post was excellent!

Co-incidentally, I've just come back from a small group holiday - one of the other group members is reasonably senior in BBC News. She told me pretty much the whole of the BBC is petrified by the prospect of losing the licence fee. Great tactics from the Tories!

Yep

Just look at what they're wanting to do the Channel 4 after they asked too many questions in the 2019 campaign. The Tories hate scrutiny of their numerous crimes.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Apologies - I'm just dipping in and out at the mo, and I'm sure your post was excellent!

Co-incidentally, I've just come back from a small group holiday - one of the other group members is reasonably senior in BBC News. She told me pretty much the whole of the BBC is petrified by the prospect of losing the licence fee. Great tactics from the Tories!

I'm certain they are all worried about it, but if the BBC has to die, I for one would prefer it died a quick death for upholding it's principles of neutraility rather a slow death by continuing to compromise to take into account the government of the day

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Yep

Just look at what they're wanting to do the Channel 4 after they asked too many questions in the 2019 campaign. The Tories hate scrutiny of their numerous crimes.

Which was done, i'm certain, as a way of firing a warning shot across Aunties bows.

c4 was just collateral damage

 

[A1X]

From a Labour perspective, she offers the greatest challenge at the next election in my opinion.

I disagree purely in terms of those left in the race, as I think Tugendhat would of all of them. That said, he won't win, so of the realistic winners I would agree. It's quite amusing to see the ERG turn on her though, which is odd given she's always been pro-Brexit and so on. Suggests if she does win the awkward squad will go back to being awkward, which is only good news for Labour frankly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agreed on this and, to add, the new way that readyforrishi puts this is he's about 'winning elections to cut taxes, not cutting taxes to win elections'. Public services are on their knees only propped up by the service of those that perform the labour, the notion that more can be cut is more for the birds nonsense that circulates widely.
I'd also offer that Badenoch also has been honest in saying that if you cut taxes, you need to decrease what the state does, which has at least an orientation of honesty, which would be enhanced if she spelled out what services she'd withdraw from the state.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

From a Labour perspective, she offers the greatest challenge at the next election in my opinion.

I just had a good read. Irish Catholic heritage, but strong British services credentials. Always a Brexitter. No history of hubris or gobshitery. No weird fixation with dressing up like Thatcher. Two labour politicians in family heritage. Rather a needless intervention in the 'trigger' issue of how to classify a trans person. But she is a tory so what do you expect. Not clear to me what she stands for. Was scolded by Mumsnet, and contrived to say the word 'cock' six times in parliament as a forefit for some misdemeanour in her reservist other life, which made me smile.

 

[Titanic]

I just had a good read. Irish Catholic heritage, but strong British services credentials. Always a Brexitter. No history of hubris or gobshitery. No weird fixation with dressing up like Thatcher. Two labour politicians in family heritage. Rather a needless intervention in the 'trigger' issue of how to classify a trans person. But she is a tory so what do you expect. Not clear to me what she stands for. Was scolded by Mumsnet, and contrived to say the word 'cock' six times in parliament as a forefit for some misdemeanour in her reservist other life, which made me smile.

PM does like a nob gag.

 

[Machiavelli]

Apologies - I'm just dipping in and out at the mo, and I'm sure your post was excellent!

Co-incidentally, I've just come back from a small group holiday - one of the other group members is reasonably senior in BBC News. She told me pretty much the whole of the BBC is petrified by the prospect of losing the licence fee. Great tactics from the Tories!

I completely get the necessity of dipping in and out of this thread!
And thanks for the insight (the best I can do is that I used to go to The Oval tests with about half of the Newsnight team, but that was decades ago).
And, yes, it is great tactics by the Tories, but it's not viewed that way by (enough of) the wider public. I see a parallel with the way that Trump and the alt-right coined the term MSM, despite the fact that that very same MSM was advocating markedly similar economic policies (if not 'cultural' ones).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Apologies if fixtures.

But you would question given this information which was widely known how did the Conservative Party ever elect him as leader?

https://youtu.be/0p-Ta83V7iw

See my thread about Elizabeth Holmes. When someone can tell people what they want to hear in a way that makes them want to believe them, common sense is left at the door. Who and what you believe are driven by confirmation biases. If you never liked unions, the EU or the nanny state, then you want to believe the cheeky chap who looks you in the eye and says, don't worry, I'll fix it, and cracks a couple of jokes. That's how it worked. And even his detractors tell us he got Brexit done and saved us all from Covid and Corbyn. Only those inside the machine (conservative MPs) can see the truth, and even though they ditched him ruthlessly they remain desperate to convince the public this is simply a slight change in presentation . . . . .

Whether you buy this or not will be determined by your confirmation bias.

 

[Jim in the West]

I just had a good read. Irish Catholic heritage, but strong British services credentials. Always a Brexitter. No history of hubris or gobshitery. No weird fixation with dressing up like Thatcher. Two labour politicians in family heritage. Rather a needless intervention in the 'trigger' issue of how to classify a trans person. But she is a tory so what do you expect. Not clear to me what she stands for. Was scolded by Mumsnet, and contrived to say the word 'cock' six times in parliament as a forefit for some misdemeanour in her reservist other life, which made me smile.

So, as a moderate, slightly left-of-centre voter (dare I use the term "Blairite"?) what do I wish for?

(a) A car-crash of a new Tory leader (eg: Liz Truss or - even worse - Kemi Badenoch) which gives Labour a much better chance in 2024?
(b) A competent, but probably not voter-friendly, Sunak?
(c) An unknown - but seemingly sane* - Penny Mordaunt? [*relatively speaking]

As others have highlighted, the latter choice could be bad news for Labour - but at the same time it would be rather refreshing to have a Prime Minister who (probably) isn't lying all the time.

PS: Just seen that Liz Truss has launched her campaign with the slogan "Liz for Leader". Oh dear!

 

[Gwylan]

I disagree purely in terms of those left in the race, as I think Tugendhat would of all of them. That said, he won't win, so of the realistic winners I would agree. It's quite amusing to see the ERG turn on her though, which is odd given she's always been pro-Brexit and so on. Suggests if she does win the awkward squad will go back to being awkward, which is only good news for Labour frankly.

I agree that Labour would fear Tugendhat the most but he's not going to win. The ERG have turned against Mordaunt because she voted for the May deal and is not seen as a true Brexiteer - ironically, given that she voted to leave and Truss, who is supported by ERG, voted to remain.

What a mess for a political party to be in - it's like some sort of religious cult

 

[Peteinblack]

Whenever the Labour Party pledges higher public spending, the Tories scream "where's the money coming from" or "where's your magic money tree"?

Yet when Tory leadership contenders pledge that they will cut income tax, no-one (except on here!) asks where the money will come from: "How many more nurses/teachers/police officers/social workers will be made redundant (and thus increase the welfare bill), or libraries/police stations/maternity units closed to fund the tax cuts?" As always, the Tory press which tears Labour apart over tax-and-spend is toothless when it comes to challenging Tory economic illiteracy - what I call Torynomics.

The predictable response from would-be Tory tax cutters is invariably "We'll fund them from the proceeds of economic growth" or "efficiency savings" - which are always kept vague and non-specific.

Still, I fully expect many gullible (I'm being polite) English voters to continue voting Tory in the expectation of receiving an income tax cut - which will be funded by increasing VAT or other indirect taxes that disproportionally affect those on lower incomes - and then spend another 5 years scratching their heads wondering why their children are in overcrowded classrooms in schools with a shortage of teachers, complaining at how long they've waited for an operation due to NHS medical staff shortages, moaning about increased local crime because of a lack of police officers, or trying to figue out why their fortnightly rubbish collection has been reduced to once a month.

Millions of fools still consistently fail to make the connection between deteriorating public services and tax cuts. And when people complain that they're "overtaxed", what they really mean is that they don't like paying taxes - but still demand world-class and highly-responsive public services.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree that Labour would fear Tugendhat the most but he's not going to win. The ERG have turned against Mordaunt because she voted for the May deal and is not seen as a true Brexiteer - ironically, given that she voted to leave and Truss, who is supported by ERG, voted to remain.

What a mess for a political party to be in - it's like some sort of religious cult

It's no surprise the ERG support Liz Truss. She is, or will become, whatever her supporters want her to be.

[tweet]1547499298186731523[/tweet]

 

[BBassic]

Truss went with 'Liz For Leader' ?

Surely 'Trust in Truss' ?

Or 'Truss-t'

Shambles.