[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Loving the in-fighting now. Quite how this cobbled together mess will function whilst briefing against each other is anyone's guess.

The wilderness beckons.

Oh I really, really hope so - they 100% fully deserve it.

 

[Machiavelli]

It's quite remarkable that in this post Brexit, post Johnson world that nastiest of parties think it's okay to have someone who will openly campaign against something so basic as being aware of prejudice and discrimination. Then we have someone who thinks it's okay to give the middle finger to a group of people protesting outside Downing St, (people who will have absolutely no idea who she is by the way) a senior ministerial position - That's elitism by the way, if some people need to be educated on the word, telling the great unwashed where to go.

Well precisely, and to think that plenty like to accuse this government of populism -- take note [MENTION=865]clapham_gull[/MENTION]

 

[Machiavelli]

Death threats?! I doubt it. Heckled, jeered? Undoubtedly, but that has always been part of politics. And if your leader is Boris Johnson then I’m afraid you reap what you sow.

But credible death threats? Don’t think so. What disrespect to Jo Cox and David Amos to try and weasel out of this by saying she was receiving death threats. Just more lies to try to excuse bad behaviour. It’s such entrenched and engrained behaviour they just can’t help themselves now, can they? Just lie upon lie upon lie.

She claims that she was confronted by a baying mob IIRC, whereas I think there was a barrier between her and the public. Happy to be corrected if this isn't the case.

 

[clapham_gull]

Well precisely, and to think that plenty like to accuse this government of populism -- take note [MENTION=865]clapham_gull[/MENTION]

Sticking a middle finger up at protestors outside Downing Street in such a manner is exactly what populism is about within a FPTP system.

Alongside attacking the courts, the media and whoever else disagrees. Double down on your core vote and con them into thinking that anyone who attacks the government is an enemy of the people.

Where have you been for the last few years ?

The MP in question is a very open supporter of Trump and his way of operating.

Take note [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION]

Nothing to do with elitism at all, the "elite" just don't do that. That was a middle finger to the educated left of centre which this particularly administration has labelled as "the elite". An elite that they have conned their newer voter base into believing are the cause of all their troubles.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sticking a middle finger up at protestors outside Downing Street in such a manner is exactly what populism is about within a FPTP system.

Alongside attacking the courts, the media and whoever else disagrees. Double down on your core vote and con them into thinking that anyone who attacks the government is an enemy of the people.

Where have you been for the last few years ?

The MP in question is a very open supporter of Trump and his way of operating.

Take note [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION]

Nothing to do with elitism at all, the "elite" just don't do that. That was a middle finger to the educated left of centre which this particularly administration has labelled as "the elite". An elite that they have conned their newer voter base into believing are the cause of all their troubles.

Getting paid for studying politics. And you?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sticking a middle finger up at protestors outside Downing Street in such a manner is exactly what populism is about within a FPTP system.

Alongside attacking the courts, the media and whoever else disagrees. Double down on your core vote and con them into thinking that anyone who attacks the government is an enemy of the people.

Where have you been for the last few years ?

The MP in question is a very open supporter of Trump and his way of operating.

Take note [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION]

Nothing to do with elitism at all, the "elite" just don't do that. That was a middle finger to the educated left of centre which this particularly administration has labelled as "the elite". An elite that they have conned their newer voter base into believing are the cause of all their troubles.

No, it wasn’t. It was a middle finger to a bunch of people shouting at her. There is no evidence as to their level of education. It was a crass, yobbish response to a noisy mob. She clearly loves the attention and, like Trump, actually thinks her poor manners are acceptable. Neither ‘side’ represents ordinary people in any way.

 

[pb21]

Getting paid for studying politics. And you?

As a student of Politics, why do you think populism takes off and becomes more prominent? What is it that the electorate want, that they see in certain people?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Death threats?! I doubt it. Heckled, jeered? Undoubtedly, but that has always been part of politics. And if your leader is Boris Johnson then I’m afraid you reap what you sow.

But credible death threats? Don’t think so. What disrespect to Jo Cox and David Amos to try and weasel out of this by saying she was receiving death threats. Just more lies to try to excuse bad behaviour. It’s such entrenched and engrained behaviour they just can’t help themselves now, can they? Just lie upon lie upon lie.

As I posted she was shouting at the crowd herself at the time. People who receive death threats would be escorted heavily with security and hurried inside asap, not brazenly signing obscenities to the crowd.
These liars love to play the victim. Lucy Allen also lied about death threats.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'd add that the 'bit thick' accusation is hardly going to work in persuading people round to your point of view.

I gave up trying to persuade people to desist from punching themselves in the face long ago

Particularly the thick ones

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

No, it wasn’t. It was a middle finger to a bunch of people shouting at her. There is no evidence as to their level of education. It was a crass, yobbish response to a noisy mob. She clearly loves the attention and, like Trump, actually thinks her poor manners are acceptable. Neither ‘side’ represents ordinary people in any way.

This. Just another narcissist revealed by that gesture, the mask slipping on the vile individual underneath it.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

In the good old days she'd resign.

 

[clapham_gull]

Getting paid for studying politics. And you?

And here comes the elite...

How dare someone have a different opinion and why you decided to call out me in your original post is anyone's guess.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

As a student of Politics, why do you think populism takes off and becomes more prominent? What is it that the electorate want, that they see in certain people?

I know you are asking [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] but my answer would be that the most popular policies always win elections and always have done. That’s the whole point of democracy. The Blair Labour Government turned it into a science with focus groups. It has only been turned into an insult in recent times, which is a curious development. The alternative would be something like Putin’s Russia or China where public opinion is disregarded and extremely illiberal policies implemented.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I know you are asking [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION]but my answer would be that the most popular policies always win elections and always have done. That’s the whole point of democracy. The Blair Labour Government turned it into a science with focus groups. It has only been turned into an insult in recent times which is a curious development. The alternative would be something like Putin’ Russia or China where public opinion is disregarded and extremely illiberal policies implemented.

When racism and homophobia are used to gain popular support that is abuse of power.

 

[clapham_gull]

No, it wasn’t. It was a middle finger to a bunch of people shouting at her. There is no evidence as to their level of education. It was a crass, yobbish response to a noisy mob. She clearly loves the attention and, like Trump, actually thinks her poor manners are acceptable. Neither ‘side’ represents ordinary people in any way.

Their actual education and politics is irrelevant. Unfortunately (like Trump) they've attracted a number of supporters who think that's acceptable and will chuckle about it down the pub.

 

[clapham_gull]

I know you are asking [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] but my answer would be that the most popular policies always win elections and always have done. That’s the whole point of democracy. The Blair Labour Government turned it into a science with focus groups. It has only been turned into an insult in recent times, which is a curious development. The alternative would be something like Putin’s Russia or China where public opinion is disregarded and extremely illiberal policies implemented.

The electorate has changed somewhat though as have the numbers. "Populism" doesn't mean popular and this Government haven't made much of an attempt to attract more than it needs to keep it in power.

Why would it with the mess of the opposition over last decade ?

And that's the key. Part of that strategy is always about appealing to the negative side of their supporters personality and reinforcing what they fear.

A good example is the debate around Transgender rights. It's mainly a fierce debate within "feminism" and doesn't impact on 99.9% of the population. Another being the protection of statues, but there are many more including fear of the EU.

They've never been able to break away from the populist Nationalism that won the referendum. No surprise there though, they was never a plan on what to do next.

 

[Bry Nylon]

In the good old days she'd resign.

Well quite. We’ll know if there truly has been a ‘re-set’ - and if any lessons about humility, respect and standards have been learned by the governing party - if she is still in her job on Monday morning. Not holding my breath. Just expecting more excuses, lies, a failure to take responsibility or to be held accountable and all the while drawing a ministerial salary.

Just get her sacked, ffs.

 

[mikeyjh]

I know you are asking [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] but my answer would be that the most popular policies always win elections and always have done. That’s the whole point of democracy. The Blair Labour Government turned it into a science with focus groups. It has only been turned into an insult in recent times, which is a curious development. The alternative would be something like Putin’s Russia or China where public opinion is disregarded and extremely illiberal policies implemented.

That's not what populism is, by any stretch. Look it up.

 

[pb21]

I know you are asking [MENTION=28490]Machiavelli[/MENTION] but my answer would be that the most popular policies always win elections and always have done. That’s the whole point of democracy. The Blair Labour Government turned it into a science with focus groups. It has only been turned into an insult in recent times, which is a curious development. The alternative would be something like Putin’s Russia or China where public opinion is disregarded and extremely illiberal policies implemented.

I was more thinking of populism as an 'idealogy', rather than simply popular policies. IMO, and I'm not a student paid to learn, there is a connection with demagoguary, but I'm not an expert.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Exactly. The office of Prime Minister, the notion of service and the nation need him gone today.

I'm on the wagon at the moment but, if and when it happens, I will have an "exception day". Then I will start hoping that his successor is not quite as useless. Because, if it's Raab or Patel we really are Donald Ducked.

On a separate note, has anyone seen [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION] ?

Wow guys thanks for your concern about me.....or perhaps just general trolling.

Believe it or not, I have not had a chance to get on and post much as I have been a busy boy.

So I have a spare half an hour now, if you want to chat, never ever has the boots run from anyone, so won't be starting any day soon.


The more observant of you may have seen months ago my admission of being wrong, when I put it in my profile location that I was eating pie.........humble.

Why was that, I hear you ask

Because it was clear that Boris had overcooked it IMO and was ready for de throning.

That said I don't like the way a few went about it, Rishi has cooked his goose as far as I am concerned, one of the main stabbers if you ask me, he didn't take long to have a promo video out.
Lack of respect from me for that, so if he gets the job, I might have to spoil on the next GE.

If Hunt gets in, I will be spoiling too.

This needs a true brexiteer to run the country so you guys can forget 48 voters of against Brexit Starmer getting anywhere near the job, lying through his teeth saying he now will back it.

I don't care what you say but Big Boris with his Big decision making got stuff done.
The Russians found him a handful.....what better trait for leading against the bully boys of Russia.
Getting us out of that tinpot EU was a masterstroke and making the quick decision to get AZ vaccines without all the EU red tape again shows, that he was on it.


Did Boris start any wars? he just led the way and tried to stop them fast.

Starmer would still be thinking and sitting on the fence in all the big decision moments that need decisive action IMO.

How the hell he got away with chucking beers down his neck, shows how corrupt the system is at times.

He will feel used and abused when randy Nandy passes him to lead labour...........just a matter of time as I have said in the past.




I am actually quite surprised that most of you didn't like him he was too liberal for me at times.

For the record, I never had a problem with Boris about his lying as all politicians do it, he had just exceeded his limit.

But thank you big hitter Boris for Brexit and getting those weapons at breakneck speed to Ukraine, it what has been the hardest political time for any PM to have led.