[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Sarisbury Seagull]

You've got to wonder what the people of Fareham are thinking to vote for her!

Well I despise her. Unfortunately though it’s about as blue as it comes, they would vote for a brick with a blue rosette. There is a classic ‘I’m all right Jack’ mentality, they are Tories through and through and I know quite a few who like this vile cretin. Depressing.

Edit - what I’ll also add is the area her constituency covers is one of the least multicutural parts of the country so she’s playing to her crowd too as a very high number of her constituents would be anti immigrants and I would actually class a lot, knowing them, as prejudiced on many levels.

We make an effort with our boys to make sure they are properly educated about the wider world as their school is 99% white, British, Christian unfortunately so they don’t get it from school.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wootton and Fox should both be suspended imo.

I also think the police should be investigating Wootton, but that's another scenario.

Actually, the X spat (Twitter spat) from Fox shows interaction the conversation was planned so Wootton should be suspended too.

 

[Stato]

This is the BBC Politics Live discussion that caused Fox's strange meltdown. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001qwx4/politics-live-25092023 - Starts at about 37 minutes.

There really is absolutely nothing in it to get riled up about. Geoff Norcott, a hack comedian, but a fairly reasonable and intelligent bloke is on selling his book and is asked whether he supports Sunak's proposal for a minister for men. Evans makes the perfectly reasonable argument that such a post risks being a bit of a sop to culture warriors and that a minister for mental health would be a more pressing need that would deal with the main issues of concern. Both she and he try to keep it friendly and lighthearted. She even says that she'll read his book and may change her mind.

The challenge in the discussion comes far more from Frances O'Grady than from Evans, but she's a respected middle aged Baroness who presumably doesn't fit the GB News stereotype of 'modern wokery gone mad.' In attacking her arguments, it would be far harder for them to pretend that sex discrimination is not an age old issue, just a first world problem imagined by woke millenials. Weirdly, as a post menopausal woman, O'Grady seems no longer such an easy target for the kind of misoginistic reduction to levels of sexual attractiveness that men like Fox use to belittle the arguments of women - Although, having done a few decades in senior positions in the TGWU & TUC, I suspect she's already had her share of it.

 

[Blackadder]

Actually, the X spat (Twitter spat) from Fox shows interaction the conversation was planned so Wootton should be suspended too.

No he shouldn't. He should be sacked. Both of them make a livelihood out of hate !!

 

[stewart12]

You’ve gotta wonder what has happened in her life to make her such a shameless hypocritical horror. Standard it’s ok for me not others Tory shtick

I honestly think what's happened is that she's spotted a route to power and is throwing all of her eggs in the far right basket. The white far right love a "reformed immigrant" who share their views as they feel that it adds legitimacy to their opinions ("look a brown person's saying what I think- see I'm not racist!"). I'm really not convinced that she actually believes half the crap she's spewing out and is merely using it as a tool to get to the top. It could well work- Sunak will be gone after the election or maybe even before and who else is there?

 

[Blackadder]

Since the GBNews thread is at the bottom of the bin, I may as well mention here.

In any case Rees Mogg has a game show on there based on future infrastructure funding called Blankety Blank so it's related.

GB News suspends Laurence Fox over comments about female journalist

Broadcaster says it will apologise to Ava Evans about Fox’s comments about her on Dan Wootton’s show

www.theguardian.com

If you haven't had chance to see the interchange, I can't see how either can continue on there.

There is a currently a bit of a melt down between Fox and Wootton on Twitter. Fox seemingly now gone, wants to pull a others down with him.

I appreciate it's all subjective but I would say that Ava is well out of Fox's league....

 

[abc]

Since the GBNews thread is at the bottom of the bin, I may as well mention here.

In any case Rees Mogg has a game show on there based on future infrastructure funding called Blankety Blank so it's related.

GB News suspends Laurence Fox over comments about female journalist

Broadcaster says it will apologise to Ava Evans about Fox’s comments about her on Dan Wootton’s show

www.theguardian.com

If you haven't had chance to see the interchange, I can't see how either can continue on there.

There is a currently a bit of a melt down between Fox and Wootton on Twitter. Fox seemingly now gone, wants to pull a others down with him.

The Fox diatribe is extraordinary. As someone who occasionally rolls their eyes at some of the 'woke' aspects of parts of our society, I recognise there are lines that shouldnt be crossed. Fox has crossed one of those lines by a margin of many miles

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

You've got to wonder what the people of Fareham are thinking to vote for her!

Maybe they won’t again….

 

[dsr-burnley]

So according to our home secretary “Multiculturalism has failed”, insists the mixed-race daughter of 2 economic migrants of Mauritian and Indian descent ... a woman who studied in France, and who married a British Jew on her way to one of the three great offices of state, where she now works for a Hindu prime minister ...
Yes, her entire life is just a catalogue of multicultural failures...

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

NSC's pet Burnley supporter defending a racist Home Secretary who has been rebuked by the UN. Well that was totally unexpected

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No he shouldn't. He should be sacked. Both of them make a livelihood out of hate !!

Even better.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

How do you explain her rhetoric about women not being persecuted so cannot claim asylum nor anyone who is gay?

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.
Yes, I have been there.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Maybe they won’t again….

The boundaries have been moved to include Meon etc which is rural, unfortunately.

As for a leadership challenge, I reckon Penny Mordaunt is ambitious enough to try again, but she is experienced in lying.

 

[BBassic]

NSC's pet Burnley supporter defending a racist Home Secretary who has been rebuked by the UN. Well that was totally unexpected

Shall we all chip in for a Turf Moor flyover?

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

I think Suella knows exactly what she's doing; its similar to what Merkel did in 2010 or so in Germany. She is playing to the right wing by using a term which is often misunderstood/misconstrued so as to be able to take a defensive opportunity to clarify should it be necessary. Ultimately its use is to provoke division.
I happen to agree with your understanding of the word which is why I'd talk about cultural integration rather than use it.

 

[dsr-burnley]

How do you explain her rhetoric about women not being persecuted so cannot claim asylum nor anyone who is gay?

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.
Yes, I have been there.

How would you explain Corbyn's rhetoric about Jews being the scum of the earth? You wouldn't need to, because he didn't say it.

What Braverman said was that just being a woman, or being gay, wasn't enough to justify an asylum claim. You had to be individually persecuted. As you no doubt know, the UN Refugee Convention grants refugee status to members of persecuted groups. It isn't reasonable under that convention to declare women or all homosexuals (or, for that matter, all adulterers and female fornicators!) in all Muslim countries a "group", even though they do (as a rule) have tougher living conditions than we do.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I think Suella knows exactly what she's doing; its similar to what Merkel did in 2010 or so in Germany. She is playing to the right wing by using a term which is often misunderstood/misconstrued so as to be able to take a defensive opportunity to clarify should it be necessary. Ultimately its use is to provoke division.
I happen to agree with your understanding of the word which is why I'd talk about cultural integration rather than use it.

Good point. But, of course, cultural integration is well and truly frowned upon in certain "anti-racist" circles. How often do we hear about cultural appropriation as being a bad thing? Cultural integration is the opposite of multiculturalism, not a synonym.

 

[chickens]

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

What, this Nelson?

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/people/some-10000-muslims-gather-in-nelson-to-commemorate-prophet-muhammads-birthday-4348293

What’s wrong with it? Within the framework of our civil law, surely you’re not arguing against freedom of religious expression?

Persecution has never worked well anywhere, I don’t think we should be trialling it in small Lancashire towns.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

That's a rather particular take on multiculturalism: "Multiculturalism seeks the inclusion of the views and contributions of diverse members of society while maintaining respect for their differences and withholding the demand for their assimilation into the dominant culture."

So that means allowing foringers to live in the community without forcing them to drink beer, eat fish and chips and watch east enders, and letting them pray to their weird Gods, and eat their weird food if they want.

What's wrong with that, exactly?

 

[dsr-burnley]

What, this Nelson?

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/people/some-10000-muslims-gather-in-nelson-to-commemorate-prophet-muhammads-birthday-4348293

What’s wrong with it? Within the framework of our civil law, surely you’re not arguing against freedom of religious expression?

Persecution has never worked well anywhere, I don’t think we should be trialling it in small Lancashire towns.

Nothing's wrong with it. The difficulty with multiculturalism isn't that it gives people the right to live their lives as they choose, because liberal democracy does that too. It's that it separates the races rather than integrates them. You seem to think that the opposite of multiculturalism is persecution; it isn't.

Multiculturalism | Definition, Impact, Challenges, & Facts | Britannica

Multiculturalism, the view that cultures, races, and ethnicities, particularly those of minority groups, deserve acknowledgment of their differences within a dominant political culture. It is both a response to the fact of cultural pluralism and a way of compensating cultural groups for past...

www.britannica.com