[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[clapham_gull]

You seem to have more faith in the electorate than I do. I'm currently expecting that next year too many voters will think 'I voted labour/lib dem last year, and they ain't done nuthin for me, I'm gonna vote Tory in the GE'.

I live in a very cake and eat it location. Traditionally votes in a Labour MP and a Tory Council. I live in Wandsworth, left Clapham years ago.

No surprise, hyper low Council Tax under the Tories flagship well performing local administration with a yoghurt knitting but worried about their house value population.

Last years local election told me that residents were quite happy for their council tax to go up in the future to kick the Tories out.

And of course, we can well afford it. But millions others will be thinking of a reason. I may be wrong, but my hunch is they are screwed.

 

[clapham_gull]

Problem for Starmer is that I think that your bog standard Lib Dem voter is actually quite Conservative and views the party as a "safe space" from Tory extremism.

He has to do more to win those type of voter. On balance I think he's done quite well to shake off the Corbyn era.

I definitely think there is a potential Back To The Future reboot where Starmer travels back to the 1970s and meets a young Corbyn.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The things all went wrong because (Cameron called; the public voted for; the mess of) Brexit narrative is widespread. It's also a load of old baloney. Things went wrong because the British electorate bought the austerity nonsense and, before that, the prior neoliberal iteration of it stretching all the way back through 'beyond left and right' Blair, 'family values' Major and all the way back to you know who. You go through all that, throw in Osborne's austerity as the context, you get Brexit.

That’s a “things went wrong” from a values and philosophy point of view.

@jcdenton08 was saying that strong majority government gets things done and coalition doesn’t. I was pointing out that the Con Lib coalition did get things done while the country has been in complete chaos under the huge majority won by Boris.

Personally I think a progressive coalition of Labour, Lib Dem, Green and SNP would be great next time out. It’s how the majority vote. The vast majority of the country couldn’t give a shiny shit about Brexit or the culture wars. They vote for parties other than the Tories but spread that vote across three or four of them.

 

[DataPoint]

It's incredibly exciting isn't it! - in less than 18 months, Kier will be in Downing Street and England will be ruled from Scotland. Least, that's what I'll be voting for - wont you?

 

[chickens]

Hugely distressing.

I honestly don’t see it that way. I would argue that single party governments often get drunk on their own power, and coalitions check the largest party from unleashing unpopular policies/vanity projects on the public without too much scrutiny.

The whole art of politics is meant to be compromise, it’s only in the U.K. and US that it’s entirely childish and adversarial. Our electoral system encourages these bizarre excesses, it leads to attention seeking children being given positions of power.

What coalitions do is force parties to find common ground. It’s possible for that to lead to better policy than a single party unchecked. Neither Labour or Liberal parties want to fail, through self-interest if nothing else. If it happens, they’ll find a way.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It's incredibly exciting isn't it! - in less than 18 months, Kier will be in Downing Street and England will be ruled from Scotland. Least, that's what I'll be voting for - wont you?

Ah - the Cameron line from more than 10 years ago. About as tired and irrelevant as this current government.

Meanwhile…..in 2023 & 2024, the SNP are an absolute shitshow and face being wiped out in Scotland by Labour in a similar way to the Tories south of the border.

You’ll be very surprised to know how many Scots have now finally worked out that a vote for the SNP will more than likely will get you a Tory UK government and disaster policies like Brexit.

 

[jimhigham]

Lewis Goodall pointed out that Labour would need a swing similar to that which Blair gained in 1997 simply to reach an overall majority of 1. This makes talk of a Labour majority seem pretty fanciful. However, a Labour government is looking far more likely, as the Tories simply haven’t got anybody left to form a coalition with. Pretty much everybody is now lined up against them.

LidDem to be a coalition partner following big gains in the south? A referendum on an end to FPTP as a precondition of entering into any agreement? I’d take that. Would love to see off FPTP so I can vote Green usefully and not just as a Woking based hissy fit.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Problem for Starmer is that I think that your bog standard Lib Dem voter is actually quite Conservative and views the party as a "safe space" from Tory extremism.

He has to do more to win those type of voter. On balance I think he's done quite well to shake off the Corbyn era.

I definitely think there is a potential Back To The Future reboot where Starmer travels back to the 1970s and meets a young Corbyn.

In my experience where I am, Liberal Democrats can be and are every bit as radical as anyone else. I couldn’t ever see my constituency - Winchester - going Labour, but it has in the past been strongly Liberal. And a lot of moderate but traditional Tories locally will be enormously uncomfortable with much of what the current government is doing, particularly around immigration and public services.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Lewis Goodall pointed out that Labour would need a swing similar to that which Blair gained in 1997 simply to reach an overall majority of 1. This makes talk of a Labour majority seem pretty fanciful. However, a Labour government is looking far more likely, as the Tories simply haven’t got anybody left to form a coalition with. Pretty much everybody is now lined up against them.

LidDem to be a coalition partner following big gains in the south? A referendum on an end to FPTP as a precondition of entering into any agreement? I’d take that. Would love to see off FPTP so I can vote Green usefully and not just as a Woking based hissy fit.

It seems more obvious than ever from these elections that there are places where Lib Dem’s are the major opponent of the Tories - Bracknell for example - and others where it’s Labour. would that be enough to make Labour the biggest party, and capable of forming a government with bigger LibDem presence as well.

but on the end of FPTP, I would welcome it. I could count on the fingers of one foot (geddit?) how many times over the last 40 years (and more) how many times I have not voted tactically.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I honestly don’t see it that way. I would argue that single party governments often get drunk on their own power, and coalitions check the largest party from unleashing unpopular policies/vanity projects on the public without too much scrutiny.

The whole art of politics is meant to be compromise, it’s only in the U.K. and US that it’s entirely childish and adversarial. Our electoral system encourages these bizarre excesses, it leads to attention seeking children being given positions of power.

What coalitions do is force parties to find common ground. It’s possible for that to lead to better policy than a single party unchecked. Neither Labour or Liberal parties want to fail, through self-interest if nothing else. If it happens, they’ll find a way.

Coalitions seem to work for Germany, and the allies forced proportional representation on them after the end of WW2.

 

[chickens]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I think of our system as an elected dictatorship. When Thatcher and Blair were elected with large majorities they were, effectively, dictatorships. They could do whatever they wanted for a few years before facing the electorate again. When the Con/Lib coalition took over I thought that was quite progressive. The tax threshold was raised (Lib Dem initiative) for the first time for years having been frozen by Brown as a stealth tax. The Tories of course took credit for that and stitched up the libs with the student fees fiasco. The tories are crafty bastards, I will give them that.

 

[Bodian]

Their nightmare scenario is a coalition between Labour and a significant Lib Dem vote which manages to get a change in the electoral system over the line.

Bring it on.

 

[Mellotron]

Personally, that's the sort of outcome I've been hoping would come around for a long while. A decent centre-left coalition/pact could see the Tories out for much of the rest of my life.

Exactly this.

 

[A1X]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

Most parties which have been in power for too long ultimately run out of talent, it’s happening now as it happened at the arse end of the Labour government before it, and the Tory one before that.

 

[nicko31]

Is the PM Sunakered ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

And you're trying to put the case that these loonies were all appointed by someone not doing stupid things ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's incredibly exciting isn't it! - in less than 18 months, Kier will be in Downing Street and England will be ruled from Scotland. Least, that's what I'll be voting for - wont you?

We’ve only got Brexit done because we were ruled from Northern Ireland. All of that went well.

 

[Flex Your Head]

I was pretty sure my next door neighbour was a Tory, but this morning he's put a load of bunting and union jacks up to celebrate their massive losses.

At least I think that's what it's for

 

[Hugo Rune]

Sir Kier needs to reverse some laws when he gets in.

Being arrested for peaceful protest IS NOT OK.

Dozens of protesters arrested during Coronation

Republic CEO Graham Smith was among 52 detained in London, as protests were held around the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s seems that pissing off Tories is an arrestable offence now.