[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[abc]

The 'they're all the same' defence. It's at least a couple of pages since we've had that

Not a defence at all, completely the reverse. I despair how lies and spin (essentially the same thing in practice) have become imbedded in politics and are now largely considered normal. I despise Johnson for his lies, arrogance and his total lack of interest in the welfare of the country and its people rather than his own career. However, I don't have much more confidence in anyone in the Westminster sewer. That's not a defence, but an opinion I hold and I wish I had cause to feel differently.

 

[rogersix]

Whether he did or didn't lie is now really irrelevant in terms of his career (that's not to say he shouldn't be held to account) as a politician in that he has completely and permanently lost the trust of the people he was supposed to represent. The fact that he and his supporters believe there is a way back starkly demonstrates how some, if not all, Westminster politicians have completely lost any understanding of the importance of being trusted by the electorate and how this requires honesty as a pre requisite. Its astonishing and depressing. The belief that lying is an essential part of successful politics started with the spin of Mandelson and the lying by Blair over Iraq, continued with Brexit (on both sides) and has culminated in a whole government that simply cannot tell the difference between truth and lies. Regardless of one's views on their policies or beliefs, I don't think anyone doubted the essential honesty of people like Thatcher, Kinnock or Major. I see precious few anywhere in Westminster that I can say the same for. If people cant believe the words of our leaders or potential leaders, why bother to vote?

starmer?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not a defence at all, completely the reverse. I despair how lies and spin (essentially the same thing in practice) have become imbedded in politics and are now largely considered normal. I despise Johnson for his lies, arrogance and his total lack of interest in the welfare of the country and its people rather than his own career. However, I don't have much more confidence in anyone in the Westminster sewer. That's not a defence, but an opinion I hold and I wish I had cause to feel differently.

You seem to have gone straight from 1 to 3 bypassing 2 completely

The Johnson cabal supporters are still here, even if those particular accounts aren't.

Just look out for the "They're all the same", "Why isn't Starmer doing more", "I don't support this Government, but" posts from the more recent NSC joiners

(I don't really think you are one of these new accounts from the Johnson cabal )

 

[Flagship]

so you are moderate. what sanction would a moderate impose on someone for posting,

"plough them all into a fuckin ditch",

just so as i know the difference between right and wrong, like.

Maybe we could dig some sort of… No. no. Can’t do that.

No, best not or you may be CENSURED. It's in the OED.

 

[Flagship]

so you are moderate. what sanction would a moderate impose on someone for posting,

"plough them all into a fuckin ditch",

just so as i know the difference between right and wrong, like

I expect you know the difference. I'm not a moderator so perhaps you should ask one.
All I would say is that sort of stuff is unnecessary and people should be able to get their point across without resorting to vitriol.

 

[nicko31]

Well bugger me backwards, Johnson lied to the Privileges Committee

Boris Johnson claimed No 10 drinks party was for official who didn’t leave until month later​

Boris Johnson has been urged to correct his Partygate inquiry testimony after he was found to have claimed a No 10 party marked the exit of the top civil servant who did not resign until a month later. The former Tory prime minister claimed the notorious “bring your own booze” garden party on 20 May 2020 had been aimed at motivating staff because cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill had quit. But Mr Sedwill did not resign until 29 June 2020 – more than a month later.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-partygate-inquiry-drinks-b2306473.html

I'm sure nobody expected that

7 years for perjury isn't ?

 

[Bob!]

7 years for perjury isn't ?

Well, that or plough him into ........

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Whether he did or didn't lie is now really irrelevant in terms of his career (that's not to say he shouldn't be held to account) as a politician in that he has completely and permanently lost the trust of the people he was supposed to represent. The fact that he and his supporters believe there is a way back starkly demonstrates how some, if not all, Westminster politicians have completely lost any understanding of the importance of being trusted by the electorate and how this requires honesty as a pre requisite. Its astonishing and depressing. The belief that lying is an essential part of successful politics started with the spin of Mandelson and the lying by Blair over Iraq, continued with Brexit (on both sides) and has culminated in a whole government that simply cannot tell the difference between truth and lies. Regardless of one's views on their policies or beliefs, I don't think anyone doubted the essential honesty of people like Thatcher, Kinnock or Major. I see precious few anywhere in Westminster that I can say the same for. If people cant believe the words of our leaders or potential leaders, why bother to vote?

If you believe that lying and spin started with Mandelson, then I have some beans to sell you.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No, best not or you may be CENSURED. It's in the OED.

You have already censured him; ie. registered your disapproval. The owner of this board, and his moderators haven't.
Any further problems?

 

[rogersix]

I expect you know the difference. I'm not a moderator so perhaps you should ask one.
All I would say is that sort of stuff is unnecessary and people should be able to get their point across without resorting to vitriol.

you were judging the moderator, so i wrongly assumed that you thought you could do better, my mistake, soz.

it's humour, have you lived in england long?

"plough them all into a f***ing ditch", clampy informs me that the english have been saying this for centuries, but today, you are too snowflaky to see the humour. i thought you right wing johnies were champions of free speech? i got that wrong as well.

(i don't think anyone has actually been ploughed into any ditch, (and if they were, they almost certainly deserved it))

 

[rogersix]

7 years for perjury isn't ?

it depends what school you went to

 

[Thunder Bolt]

She's leaving anyway.

Let her carry on doing damage.

Leaving the Commons. She's still holding out for her peerage in the House of Lords, with a vote and £350 a day for checking in.

Get her out.

 

[Bodian]

Well bugger me backwards, Johnson lied to the Privileges Committee

Boris Johnson claimed No 10 drinks party was for official who didn’t leave until month later​

Boris Johnson has been urged to correct his Partygate inquiry testimony after he was found to have claimed a No 10 party marked the exit of the top civil servant who did not resign until a month later. The former Tory prime minister claimed the notorious “bring your own booze” garden party on 20 May 2020 had been aimed at motivating staff because cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill had quit. But Mr Sedwill did not resign until 29 June 2020 – more than a month later.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-partygate-inquiry-drinks-b2306473.html

I'm sure nobody expected that

Ah - but it was presumably in 'good faith'. And what you need to understand is that they had all been working very hard.

 

[nicko31]

She's leaving anyway.

Let her carry on doing damage.

I don't see why she should be allowed to continue undermining our democracy. I don't care what party she is in, if you undermine parliamentary scrutiny committees you are in contempt of parliament. Speaker needs to act...

There's also Ofcom too....

 

[Peteinblack]

Well bugger me backwards, Johnson lied to the Privileges Committee

Boris Johnson claimed No 10 drinks party was for official who didn’t leave until month later​

Boris Johnson has been urged to correct his Partygate inquiry testimony after he was found to have claimed a No 10 party marked the exit of the top civil servant who did not resign until a month later. The former Tory prime minister claimed the notorious “bring your own booze” garden party on 20 May 2020 had been aimed at motivating staff because cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill had quit. But Mr Sedwill did not resign until 29 June 2020 – more than a month later.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-partygate-inquiry-drinks-b2306473.html

I'm sure nobody expected that

I bet he lied "hand on heart"

 

[Machiavelli]

Whether he did or didn't lie is now really irrelevant in terms of his career (that's not to say he shouldn't be held to account) as a politician in that he has completely and permanently lost the trust of the people he was supposed to represent. The fact that he and his supporters believe there is a way back starkly demonstrates how some, if not all, Westminster politicians have completely lost any understanding of the importance of being trusted by the electorate and how this requires honesty as a pre requisite. Its astonishing and depressing. The belief that lying is an essential part of successful politics started with the spin of Mandelson and the lying by Blair over Iraq, continued with Brexit (on both sides) and has culminated in a whole government that simply cannot tell the difference between truth and lies. Regardless of one's views on their policies or beliefs, I don't think anyone doubted the essential honesty of people like Thatcher, Kinnock or Major. I see precious few anywhere in Westminster that I can say the same for. If people cant believe the words of our leaders or potential leaders, why bother to vote?

This is a false equivalence. A couple of points on this:
1, Blair didn't lie about Iraq. He believed the intelligence. Whether he should have done, or not, is an entirely different question. He still speaks about this, have a listen to Gordon Correra's series currently airing on R4.
2, the New Labour spin that you're referring to was what they regarded to be a necessary response to the 'feral beast' that is the UK press, which is fiercely partisan to a particular point of view, and particular political party. This UK press impacts upon how other operators within the media ecosystem can operate. We do not have a balanced media. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply delusional. Whether New Labour were right to pursue that strategy is a different question. Corbyn took a different one, and look how that turned out.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ah - but it was presumably in 'good faith'. And what you need to understand is that they had all been working very hard.

And don't forget that it's an attack on the hardworking civil servants too.

 

[Peteinblack]

Seems that Dorries has been looking in the mirror with some of her fellow Johnson sycophants

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I bet he lied "hand on heart"

Conspiracy theory. Neither the report, the police nor the Privileges Committee are mentioning the Abba gathering (are we allowed to say party?) It seems as though that inquiry is hands-off. Is that why Johnson and Sunak paid their fines without arguing? Lots of rumours abound.
So many questions and so few answers.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Conspiracy theory. Neither the report, the police nor the Privileges Committee are mentioning the Abba gathering (are we allowed to say party?) It seems as though that inquiry is hands-off. Is that why Johnson and Sunak paid their fines without arguing? Lots of rumours abound.
So many questions and so few answers.

What was the Abba gathering?