[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[The Clamp]

it looks more like an expression of frustration in a humouress manor, and you come across as a bit snowflakey?

is that fair?

It is a reference to the cry of the Luddite’s when machination began to erode livelihoods in rural England.

As you say, a humorous slight against the government of the day.

Perhaps one for the more aware on here.

But if it offends, I’ll happily cease using it. No harm intended, no need for personal attacks or thread derailment.

Down with the Tory’s. Boo! Hiss! and out with the blighters!

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I see you posting some quite 'interesting' bits and bobs on this thread, but I am wondering why you think the above?

So it’s a case of “if I’m guilty so is everyone else”. Someone should explain to him that no one likes a grass.

 

[rogersix]

It is a reference to the cry of the Luddite’s when machination began to erode livelihoods in rural England.

As you say, a humorous slight against the government of the day.

Perhaps one for the more aware on here.

But if it offends, I’ll happily cease using it. No harm intended, no need for personal attacks or thread derailment.

Down with the Tory’s. Boo! Hiss! and out with the blighters!

it is an amusing turn of phrase, i like it. cheers for the info

 

[Bodian]

So it’s a case of “if I’m guilty so is everyone else”. Someone should explain to him that no one likes a grass.

Especially when he starts by saying that one of the advisers he asked has requested not to be identified. And then immediately says 'she...' - which narrows down the possibilities hugely.

 

[The Clamp]

Especially when he starts by saying that one of the advisers he asked has requested not to be identified. And then immediately says 'she...' - which narrows down the possibilities hugely.

I find it depressingly amusing when these thirsty little twerps suck up to Johnson in order to further their career/profit margin/influence, thinking they are going to be the one that doesn’t get burned.
Yet one by one, he very publicly chucks them all under the bus*.








*can I use that expression? It does seem a little violent.

 

[rogersix]

I find it depressingly amusing when these thirsty little twerps suck up to Johnson in order to further their career/profit margin/influence, thinking they are going to be the one that doesn’t get burned.
Yet one by one, he very publicly chucks them all under the bus*.








*can I use that expression? It does seem a little violent.

they are systematically, ploughing themselves into a ditch

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

they are systematically, ploughing themselves into a ditch

Careful now, some people can get easily offended. When it’s convenient to their cause obviously.

 

[Rdodge30]

I see you posting some quite 'interesting' bits and bobs on this thread, but I am wondering why you think the above?

YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.

 

[The Clamp]

YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.

Hmm, 56%

Rather similar figure to another opinion poll taken a few years ago.

Now, does it refer to the rate of immigration or the number of immigrants already here? If it’s rate of immigration, the result means that the majority of people polled are either happy with the rate of immigration or don’t know.

Details are important here.

 

[rogersix]

YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.

that is an awfuly leading question tho, who came up with it?

 

[pb21]

YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.

That's 56%, not 52%.

 

[The Clamp]

that is an awfuly leading question tho, who came up with it?

Quite.

Does it refer to the rate of immigration or the number of immigrants already here? If it’s rate of immigration, the result means that the majority of people polled are either happy with the rate of immigration or don’t know.

Rather disconcertingly vague. Aimed at those who don’t ask for many details, I’ll proffer.

 

[Rdodge30]

Hmm, 56%

Rather similar figure to another grand opinion poll taken a few years ago.

Now, does it refer to the rate of immigration or the number of immigrants already here? If it’s rate of immigration that means that the majority of people polled are either happy with the rate of immigration or don’t know.

Details are important here.

Is there too much immigration in this country?

No 10%

If that doesn’t tell you what the general feeling is …?

If yes and no total 66% how can the rest be a majority?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Quite. My view is simply that he should have aggressively taken control of the narrative and would have benefited from it politically.

Instead he has simply commented on a Gary Lineker story. Not a disaster for the party but just a bit meh! The unnerving feeling I’m getting is that he has no clue what to do on immigration and for all that the election is 13/14 months away, I find that concerning.


Incidentally I follow betting on horseracing and politics - I restrict myself to about half a dozen football bets a year but follow horseracing religiously and politics intently.

Before Lineker week
Next GE betting:

Labour most seats: 1/6 odds on everywhere - no deviation amongst bookmakers

Conservative most seats: some 4/1 but almost all 7/2

After Lineker week
Next GE betting

Labour most seats: some 1/6 mostly 1/5 and 2/9 available with 2 firms

Conservative most seats: still 7/2 available but 3/1 mostly 14/5 in a place

Only small differences but noticeable if you’re looking. Poor week for Labour and I posted how I did because I just feel that these are golden opportunities, the Conservatives are constantly fumbling the ball and I want Starmer to take control of tge narrative.

I remember when Cameron won the leadership of the Tory party he almost immediately put together several policy working parties headed by senior Conservatives on individual policy areas. So by that measure I’m surprised that whatever the headline of the week be it NHS strikes Immigration or anything else that the Opposition front bench are not all out putting forward the 3point plans for the policies they intend to implement when they are in power.

To me they simply look like opposition not Government in waiting

I made a good few quid spread betting Johnson’s winning seat margin in 2019. A mate who’s a trader and Remainer called the Brexit vote as a narrow Leave win as a large misery hedge bet, in his trade positions and in an internal company competition.

The things both had in common is that they were laid days before the event (for the 2019 election mine went on the day before). Anything earlier would be madness.

There’s no point Labour acting like the government today or producing a manifesto today. Literally anything could happen between now and the next GE polling day and you call the finer points of policy based on everything you know. Today, Labour are merely the opposition and their job is to hold this rotten government’s feet to the fire.

 

[KZNSeagull]

You are making the mistake of assuming they have to prove he misled Parliament beyond all reasonable doubt, they don’t.

The simply need to consider, whether it is reasonable for the person who made the rules and read them out on TV etc to know them. The obvious answer is yes. He must have (like many times in his career before) lied. They don’t need a smoking gun.

He is toast.

Sorry, I don't think this is right. He has already admitted to misleading parliament. We know he lied. They have to find something that shows that he deliberately lied. Misleading parliament is not necessarily an offence in itself, deliberately doing it is. I didn't hear anything that shows that. They may get somewhere with the reckless bit hence the questioning about his reliance upon advisors and not impartial civil servants/lawyers but that is about it as far as I can see.
Really it was more an exercise in reminding everyone what a complete arse the man is and he may well be toast on the basis of that but I somehow doubt it.

 

[Nobby]

As a nurse we were still under social distancing guidelines in offices and they were pretty strict about it where I worked.
It was only in essential areas that distancing was not in place and PPE was a must.
I don’t seem to remember any leaving drinks either.
It’s great to think all the time we’re were being provided with inadequate PPE which the Tories and their mates were profiting out of, the considered it appropriate to get pissed up and party.
I can’t for one second understand where anyone thinks that would be ok and defend it.

Is it because they’re a little bit thick? Or just total bstds?

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes. I think it more likely that they may find he 'recklessly' misled parliament. The final set of questions were all about 'why did you rely on a media adviser for your assurances, if you were taking 'due care' you should have asked a lawyerly adviser or a senior civil servant'. Harriet Harman said his assurances were flimsy - which I thought was quite telling of how they were thinking.

Agree with this.
It's extremely difficult to establish that x has intentionally misled parliament, short of them actually admitting it. Johnson wasn't going to do that.
If you watched the committee, they seemed to favour not going for the intentional approach and, for the reasons you indicate, instead pursued the reckless charge.

 

[Rdodge30]

That's 56%, not 52%.

Yes my mistake earlier

 

[rogersix]

Is there too much immigration in this country?

No 10%

If that doesn’t tell you what the general feeling is …?

If yes and no total 66% how can the rest be a majority?

what if the question was, to fill the 50,000 vacancies in the nhs, shall we increase immigration?

the result would be greatly affected, so how would that change policy?

you can see what i'm getting at?

 

[Rdodge30]

made a good few quid spread betting Johnson’s winning seat margin in 2019. A mate who’s a trader and Remainer called the Brexit vote as a narrow Leave win as a large misery hedge bet, in his trade positions and in an internal company competition.

True enough

In 2015 I backed Conservative majority at 10/1 when hung parliament was Fav at something like 1/13on . Also beat the spread on SNP seats by going high even though the spread was high enough in the first place. The Liberals had fallen apart and in all the Southern/South western Liberal constituencies Conservatives were clear second so could win by doing nothing and with SNP destroying Labour in Scotland it was a good bet to make