[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Rdodge30]

Before we can think about what a solution might be, can you help us out with what the 'problem' with immigration policy is? What's the exact problem that needs fixing?

Thanks

Your question would be better aimed at Sir Keir, if he doesn’t think there’s a problem then no solution will be required.

Rightly or wrongly 52% of the country feel there is too much immigration so it will certainly yet again have an influence on the next GE.

The current situation for dealing with migrants and refugees in this country is often (quite rightly) referred to as a shitshow on here. The whole situation needs improvement, processing asylum seekers, deporting illegals, addressing housing and employment (not building holding camps or accommodating in hotels)

It seems to me there are many many issues that need dealing with, I’m not qualified at all to highlight what the problems are or what the solutions may be. However I’m not running for Prime Minister and I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable for me to expect the man that is running for PM to have some sort of grasp on the matter

 

[MJsGhost]

Your question would be better aimed at Sir Keir, if he doesn’t think there’s a problem then no solution will be required.

Rightly or wrongly 52% of the country feel there is too much immigration so it will certainly yet again have an influence on the next GE.

The current situation for dealing with migrants and refugees in this country is often (quite rightly) referred to as a shitshow on here. The whole situation needs improvement, processing asylum seekers, deporting illegals, addressing housing and employment (not building holding camps or accommodating in hotels)

It seems to me there are many many issues that need dealing with, I’m not qualified at all to highlight what the problems are or what the solutions may be. However I’m not running for Prime Minister and I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable for me to expect the man that is running for PM to have some sort of grasp on the matter

But you have no grasp of the 'problem' yourself, or opinion on it at all?

 

[Gwylan]

It’s a clever tactic and no mistake, state the conservative government is awful and any comparison made to Labour Governments doing similar things is routinely ridiculed as whataboutery. Seems to go down well on here but to me it’s just stifling debate to suit your own narrative

But that's not what you were doing: you said that because the Tories were in hock to the ERG and promoting their members, Labour could do the same with the SCG - even though that group was completely sidelined and Starmer had excised all connections to the SCG from senior positions in the party. So, rather doing similar things, Labour was doing the complete opposite. As I said, textbook whataboutery.

 

[TomandJerry]

The rebellion is swelling

 

[worthingweird]

But that's not what you were doing: you said that because the Tories were in hock to the ERG and promoting their members, Labour could do the same with the SCG - even though that group was completely sidelined and Starmer had excised all connections to the SCG from senior positions in the party. So, rather doing similar things, Labour was doing the complete opposite. As I said, textbook whataboutery.

Whatabout writing a manifesto perhaps...

 

[rogersix]

I’ve never had a user name on here before now.

No false equivalence.

I was furious that Corbyn was elected leader and rightly apportion blame for contributing to Boris election win

Boris is a narcissist. He has a massive superiority complex and genuinely believes that rules and laws do not apply to him because he is a superior being. I watched him in front of select committee before either when he was mayor or certainly concerning events when he was mayor. He is an absolute master of long winded responses completely evading answeothe questions followed by repeated explanations of how he has already answered the question. I can’t watch any more of it but comfortably predict nothing will come of this hearing…. Picture Blair answering questions on Iraq and the outcome will be the same

the end of days for democracy if bungle lies his way out of this, it's all getting a bit serious now,

when will the high tide of this brexit cult insanity begin to ebb?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[rogersix]

Your question would be better aimed at Sir Keir, if he doesn’t think there’s a problem then no solution will be required.

Rightly or wrongly 52% of the country feel there is too much immigration so it will certainly yet again have an influence on the next GE.

The current situation for dealing with migrants and refugees in this country is often (quite rightly) referred to as a shitshow on here. The whole situation needs improvement, processing asylum seekers, deporting illegals, addressing housing and employment (not building holding camps or accommodating in hotels)

It seems to me there are many many issues that need dealing with, I’m not qualified at all to highlight what the problems are or what the solutions may be. However I’m not running for Prime Minister and I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable for me to expect the man that is running for PM to have some sort of grasp on the matter

the entire nation has to wait until the tories call the election, and then all the relevant parties will produce a manifesto, (that's where they write down all the answers)

 

[Guinness Boy]

It’s a clever tactic and no mistake, state the conservative government is awful and any comparison made to Labour Governments doing similar things is routinely ridiculed as whataboutery. Seems to go down well on here but to me it’s just stifling debate to suit your own narrative

I’m certainly not blaming anyone but the current Government for the current situation

Looking forward, I wonder what the next Government’s solution will be as far as immigration policy goes? I thought Linekers intervention was an ideal situation for Sir Keir to take control of the narrative and outline how he will deal with the problem. Yet again nothing

You seem to assume that I am a Tory when you post on here. I can assure you I want a Labour government. However I’m not from the hate the tories eat the rich etc 4legs good 2legs bad set.

I will continue to criticise Sir Keir whilst he continues to act like a mealy mouthed leader of the opposition instead of like a Prime Minister in waiting. If he’s just going to criticise the Government without offering solutions he’d be better suited on here!! How do you think he handled the Lineker issue?

For the record, I voted remain as well. I lost, I had a beer, took a shower and moved on, years ago

Your big takeaway from the Lineker affair was that Labour should have taken control of the narrative?

GL was literally criticising Government policy, Government wording and Government tone and being hounded out of a job by the people he was critiquing.

Starmer had already responded, pointing out (correctly IMO) that the policy is unworkable and Sunak was electioneering.

 

[Rdodge30]

But that's not what you were doing: you said that because the Tories were in hock to the ERG and promoting their members, Labour could do the same with the SCG - even though that group was completely sidelined and Starmer had excised all connections to the SCG from senior positions in the party. So, rather doing similar things, Labour was doing the complete opposite. As I said, textbook whataboutery.

All I’m saying is that in a slim majority Labour Government or heaven forbid a Labour Minority Government the SCG could have a similar effect on Government Policy votes as the ERG did on Conservative policy votes. Simply there are factions within both parties who have the intent and ability to derail moderate policies. They are similar in numbers 20-30 and they are as far to the left as the ERG are to the right. Makes no difference if they are in cabinet or backbenchers. They are far from exorcised from the party.

No point arguing what May or may not happen , only time will tell.

 

[Baldseagull]

Your question would be better aimed at Sir Keir, if he doesn’t think there’s a problem then no solution will be required.

Rightly or wrongly 52% of the country feel there is too much immigration so it will certainly yet again have an influence on the next GE.

The current situation for dealing with migrants and refugees in this country is often (quite rightly) referred to as a shitshow on here. The whole situation needs improvement, processing asylum seekers, deporting illegals, addressing housing and employment (not building holding camps or accommodating in hotels)

It seems to me there are many many issues that need dealing with, I’m not qualified at all to highlight what the problems are or what the solutions may be. However I’m not running for Prime Minister and I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable for me to expect the man that is running for PM to have some sort of grasp on the matter

Kier Starmer is not running for Prime Minister either currently, he is just leader of the opposition. When an election date is announced we can expect to see what Labour propose, till then his job is to point out the short comings of what the Tories have done, are doing, and are proposing.

 

[rogersix]

Whatabout writing a manifesto perhaps...

is that where they hide all the answers?

government calls the election first, it has always been like this

 

[rogersix]

All I’m saying is that in a slim majority Labour Government or heaven forbid a Labour Minority Government the SCG could have a similar effect on Government Policy votes as the ERG did on Conservative policy votes. Simply there are factions within both parties who have the intent and ability to derail moderate policies. They are similar in numbers 20-30 and they are as far to the left as the ERG are to the right. Makes no difference if they are in cabinet or backbenchers. They are far from exorcised from the party.

No point arguing what May or may not happen , only time will tell.

so logically, you'll definitely vote labour?

you do come across as a dyed-in-the-wool tory, so fair play to you fellah

 

[knocky1]

Your question would be better aimed at Sir Keir, if he doesn’t think there’s a problem then no solution will be required.

Rightly or wrongly 52% of the country feel there is too much immigration so it will certainly yet again have an influence on the next GE.

Rubbish.
You can't use a Brexit vote from 2016 as representative of the UK's population on migration today. It was a only a 42% turnout by voters.
You'd have to assume some of these Leavers wanted out for economic reasons and desire for a blue passport rather than racism.
A handful of remainers may also have been anti immigration but wanted to sort it from an EU perspective by linking with the Far Right groups in Poland,Italy,Hungary, France,Sweden etc.
Furthermore around 4 million youngsters have entered the UK adult world and around 4 million gammons/wokies have died.

 

[Rdodge30]

Your big takeaway from the Lineker affair was that Labour should have taken control of the narrative?

Absolutely 100% YES

A golden opportunity for Sir Keir Starmer to come out fighting and end the week looking like a Prime Minister in waiting with the desperately needed solutions to the country’s problems.

By the time the BBC and Lineker had reached a standoff they should have been background noise and Starmer should’ve been demanding a General Election (not that he’d get one!)

3 separate winnable issues

1. Linker’s use of language, given the recent results of the investigation into anti semitism within the Labour Party and the tentative reunification with the Jewish community.. take a stand and cement some votes. Starmer said (mumbled) - I wouldn’t have used those words… that was it ?? Say why - using those phrases runs the risk of belittling what actually happened in Germany in the 1930’s

2. BBC decide whether you actually do want the BBC to be impartial and how you want it to be when you are in power- explain the problems with their lack of credibility re Alan Sugar etc . Set the narrative for how the BBC will be under a Labour government

3. On immigration and asylum. The Government is completely wrong. A Labour Government will seek to implement our policy etc etc ….. every big hitter from the Labour Party on every talking heads show outlining the 3 key points of the Labour Party’s immigration strategy and reiterating that the BBC will be brought to book under a Labour Government

All I saw was Lineker Lineker Lineker

I’ve no idea what Sir Keir Starmer’s policy is on refugees other than he was in an interview where a Refugee child asked him if basically we needed a better policy and he said yes basically we do.

Weak

 

[Rdodge30]

Rubbish.
You can't use a Brexit vote from 2016 as representative of the UK's population on migration today. It was a only a 42% turnout by voters.
You'd have to assume some of these Leavers wanted out for economic reasons and desire for a blue passport rather than racism.
A handful of remainers may also have been anti immigration but wanted to sort it from an EU perspective by linking with the Far Right groups in Poland,Italy,Hungary, France,Sweden etc.
Furthermore around 4 million youngsters have entered the UK adult world and around 4 million gammons/wokies have died.

Get off your high horse you are wrong

YouGov poll Feb 2023
Do you think there has been too much immigration in the Il in the last 10 years

Yes 56%
No was about 10% if I remember and don’t knows and about rights made up the rest

 

[rogersix]

Absolutely 100%

Weak

voting labour to help keep the commies out of government?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm getting the name 'Bringer of TRUTH'

 

[Guinness Boy]

Absolutely 100% YES

A golden opportunity for Sir Keir Starmer to come out fighting and end the week looking like a Prime Minister in waiting with the desperately needed solutions to the country’s problems.

By the time the BBC and Lineker had reached a standoff they should have been background noise and Starmer should’ve been demanding a General Election (not that he’d get one!)

3 separate winnable issues

1. Linker’s use of language, given the recent results of the investigation into anti semitism within the Labour Party and the tentative reunification with the Jewish community.. take a stand and cement some votes. Starmer said (mumbled) - I wouldn’t have used those words… that was it ?? Say why - using those phrases runs the risk of belittling what actually happened in Germany in the 1930’s

2. BBC decide whether you actually do want the BBC to be impartial and how you want it to be when you are in power- explain the problems with their lack of credibility re Alan Sugar etc . Set the narrative for how the BBC will be under a Labour government

3. On immigration and asylum. The Government is completely wrong. A Labour Government will seek to implement our policy etc etc ….. every big hitter from the Labour Party on every talking heads show outlining the 3 key points of the Labour Party’s immigration strategy and reiterating that the BBC will be brought to book under a Labour Government

All I saw was Lineker Lineker Lineker

I’ve no idea what Sir Keir Starmer’s policy is on refugees other than he was in an interview where a Refugee child asked him if basically we needed a better policy and he said yes basically we do.

Weak

So, on 1) by your own admission Starmer's comment was that he wouldn't have used those words, ergo he has commented. On 3) he said in Parliament they were wrong and it was unimplementable. He doesn't need to resay it because a footballer did a tweet. And on 2) the BBC will be impartial under a Labour Government because that's the raison d'etre.

The Lineker affair was about GL, the BBC and Braverman. No one else.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Vomit up the wall, sex behind the cupboard, breaking a child's swing in the garden. Just your normal run of the mill Friday afternoon/evening drinks

Meanwhile, the late Queen sat on her own in Windsor Chapel mourning her husband's death. View attachment 158609

The report was just a complete cover up, which is quite funny now.

The party they got fined for was a complete nothing, whilst other event got nothing.

Starting to look like Sue Gray was worried about looking bias when she jumped ship.