[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Blue Valkyrie]

I wonder who is keeping Michael Gove warm at nights since he split from Sarah Me?

I wonder more about whether SUPER injections are still a thing ?

#SetENRESTfree

 

[drew]

most people vote tory because,

1 they always do, and

2 they assume that their quality of life will improve through slightly lower income tax, and never look any deeper than that

I think you're talking about those that always vote Tory. The election will be won or lost on the swing voters or those that are in the middle of the political spectrum. Those voters would not vote for Corbyn but probably, if they had known then what they know now, wouldn't have voted Tory. Also let's not forget the brexit vote at the last election. As a lot of pundits commented on, a lot of natural labour voters lent the tories their vote just to get brexit done. Are they likely to do this again?

 

[Scappa]

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

View attachment 148378

Somebody told me...

He held a party...

Didn't admit it...

What a *winker*...

 

[Peteinblack]

I think comments and attitudes such as that are where Labour went awry last time, and preached they'd learn

Seems not.

Negative electioneering doesn't work.

Carry on.

On the contrary, this is all the Tories offer - endless smears, lies, and scaremongering against Labour (remember "coalition of chaos" warnings in 2015), and character assassination of all Labour leaders Blair, Brown Miliband, and Corbyn - all vilified by the Tory press.

Sadly, Mail/Express/Sun readers are daft enough to fall for it every single time - just as they would believe and repeat it if the Tories told them that the Earth was flat and the Moon was made of cheese, and only "the Woke" and "Commies" disagreed.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

On the contrary, this is all the Tories offer - endless smears, lies, and scaremongering against Labour (remember "coalition of chaos" warnings in 2015), and character assassination of all Labour leaders Blair, Brown Miliband, and Corbyn - all vilified by the Tory press.

Sadly, Mail/Express/Sun readers are daft enough to fall for it every single time - just as they would believe and repeat it if the Tories told them that the Earth was flat and the Moon was made of cheese, and only "the Woke" and "Commies" disagreed.

True.

Hopefully, it'll no longer work once people realise what a failure Johnson is and that it doesn't matter how low the alternative is - eg Corbyn, Abbott - then it is still way, way, way better than the utter disgrace the Crime Minister is and always will be.

 

[rogersix]

Speaking from the perspective of having spent five years as a boarder at a British public school I think this is worth commenting on.

Public schools do indeed have great resources. They have enough equipment and text books to go round, home-work (prep) and revision is supervised and compulsory. Class sizes are smaller. All the things you imagine, all true.

However, that doesn't mean the teaching and tuition is of a better standard. I don't know what it's like now but back in the late 80's and early 90's when I was there, teachers (Masters) barely stuck to a curriculum, half of them were semi-pissed, they dithered around with classroom tests asking cricket questions in maths tests so that nobody got full marks , the religious nutters just debated the bible all class, some just joked around with the sports cliques all period.

Masters well past their sell by dates talking about the war or cars or great test matches when they should have been teaching the curriculum. Classes were what I imagine a meeting at No.10 might be like today, good fun but totally unfit for purpose.

The real learning went on in extra-curricular classes run by teachers who were passionate about their subjects and wanted to teach. They ran extra classes in lunch breaks and evenings for those who were keen, because everyone knew you learnt **** all in most of the day classes.

Then you had the other element which idiots like Johnson and Mogg could very well have benefitted from. Not just rich parents but rich parent who were willing to throw money at the school;

"Mr. X, we think it would greatly advance your son's education if the new library was finished ahead of schedule. Mr. Y, we think you son could probably make the Rugby 1st's if only he had a new pitch to practice on" etc.....

The sort of parents who always had their cheque book on them when attending school functions.


That's not to say one had to be rich to get ahead there, if you were bright and applied yourself you would be fine. But if you weren't bright and didn't apply yourself but your parents had means, you would also be fine.


So in short, these people we perceive to have had great educations probably had nothing of the sort. They had expensive educations. Sure, they can quote a bit of Latin but they know nothing about history, politics, geo-politics, other nations, economics, social studies etc. All they learned was that pissing about and not putting the effort in didn't necessarily preclude you from being rewarded.

How disappointingly well it has served them.

thanks for posting

that does sound very much like our bungle****!

 

[rogersix]

I think you're talking about those that always vote Tory. The election will be won or lost on the swing voters or those that are in the middle of the political spectrum. Those voters would not vote for Corbyn but probably, if they had known then what they know now, wouldn't have voted Tory. Also let's not forget the brexit vote at the last election. As a lot of pundits commented on, a lot of natural labour voters lent the tories their vote just to get brexit done. Are they likely to do this again?

i don't know

one big swing is needed to overturn an eighty seat majority, but depeffelfeffel is the man to do it!

 

[Super Steve Earle]

On the contrary, this is all the Tories offer - endless smears, lies, and scaremongering against Labour (remember "coalition of chaos" warnings in 2015), and character assassination of all Labour leaders Blair, Brown Miliband, and Corbyn - all vilified by the Tory press.

Sadly, Mail/Express/Sun readers are daft enough to fall for it every single time - just as they would believe and repeat it if the Tories told them that the Earth was flat and the Moon was made of cheese, and only "the Woke" and "Commies" disagreed.

I tried not to respond, but your post illustrates exactly why Labour continues to struggle. The attitude that the media creates Tory voters' preferences rather than that they can think for themselves. The smug belief that only Labour voters are smart enough to vote intelligently because the Guardian or the Mirror tell the truth and they can see that. If Labour want to return to power they need to win hearts and minds of voters with sensible policies that engage with people's circumstances. Labour supporters saying Sun readers are stupid to vote Tory isn't exactly the best way to win them over. And be honest, just examine Corbyn for one of your 'villified' Labour leaders, it was his behaviour, attitudes, policies especially over blocking Brexit and a fanciful manifesto among other things that made him and Labour unelectable. Not the media having an unjustified pop at him.

 

[Randy McNob]

I suspect most people who vote Labour do so because they always do too.

Under our undemocratic system, all those Tory safe seats, they know the Tory will get get re-elected so why bother voting for anyone else? It also explains low turn outs. The turn out was much higher for the EU referendum because people knew their vote would make a difference. If people knew 2nd preference or PR meant their vote would make a difference even if the Tory still got in, they would vote differently

Also, we have smash the myth a low tax economy is better for the country, if taxpayers contribute less to the pot they have less of a stake in the country which has to supported more by the private sector so you end up paying more overall in the end. When Tories tell you they'll tax you less, it sounds like a vote winner but the real ambition is to take your social wealth and pass onto the private sector, usually to the big Tory donors. It just opens the door to more rampant capitalism

It's a proven fact that most countries with higher tax economies have bigger GDP per capita

 

[Lever]

I tried not to respond, but your post illustrates exactly why Labour continues to struggle. The attitude that the media creates Tory voters' preferences rather than that they can think for themselves. The smug belief that only Labour voters are smart enough to vote intelligently because the Guardian or the Mirror tell the truth and they can see that. If Labour want to return to power they need to win hearts and minds of voters with sensible policies that engage with people's circumstances. Labour supporters saying Sun readers are stupid to vote Tory isn't exactly the best way to win them over. And be honest, just examine Corbyn for one of your 'villified' Labour leaders, it was his behaviour, attitudes, policies especially over blocking Brexit and a fanciful manifesto among other things that made him and Labour unelectable. Not the media having an unjustified pop at him.

Do you believe you have to be a Labour voter to think that? More people wish for an alternative to tory government than don't and many can see the right wing propaganda generated daily by the tory press. There are alternative 'voices' in the media but generally the popular rags (for all sorts of reasons) are right wing and rabid.....

 

[Curious Orange]

Under our undemocratic system, all those Tory safe seats, they know the Tory will get get re-elected so why bother voting for anyone else?

"Safe seat" is a nonsense, as proved by Labour's demise in Scotland and the 'Red Wall' seats. Even Guildford has been know to not vote Tory on occasion.

Given the right circumstances voters do vote for the person or policy(s) rather than the party.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I tried not to respond, but your post illustrates exactly why Labour continues to struggle. The attitude that the media creates Tory voters' preferences rather than that they can think for themselves. The smug belief that only Labour voters are smart enough to vote intelligently because the Guardian or the Mirror tell the truth and they can see that. If Labour want to return to power they need to win hearts and minds of voters with sensible policies that engage with people's circumstances. Labour supporters saying Sun readers are stupid to vote Tory isn't exactly the best way to win them over. And be honest, just examine Corbyn for one of your 'villified' Labour leaders, it was his behaviour, attitudes, policies especially over blocking Brexit and a fanciful manifesto among other things that made him and Labour unelectable. Not the media having an unjustified pop at him.

Any examples of that on here?!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I tried not to respond, but your post illustrates exactly why Labour continues to struggle. The attitude that the media creates Tory voters' preferences rather than that they can think for themselves. The smug belief that only Labour voters are smart enough to vote intelligently because the Guardian or the Mirror tell the truth and they can see that. If Labour want to return to power they need to win hearts and minds of voters with sensible policies that engage with people's circumstances. Labour supporters saying Sun readers are stupid to vote Tory isn't exactly the best way to win them over. And be honest, just examine Corbyn for one of your 'villified' Labour leaders, it was his behaviour, attitudes, policies especially over blocking Brexit and a fanciful manifesto among other things that made him and Labour unelectable. Not the media having an unjustified pop at him.

Corbyn was for Brexit so where did you get the idea he tried to block it? Maybe you read it somewhere?


In the meantime, the latest dead cat has been thrown onto the table. Even a Tory MP is calling the nonsense out for what it is.

[tweet]1530662026258919424[/tweet]


Imagine the costs to retail having to replace all their scales and tills!!!

 

[Is it PotG?]

Corbyn was for Brexit so where did you get the idea he tried to block it? Maybe you read it somewhere?

Did he never instruct his MPs to block the bill?

Fair dos.

Bercow and Corbyn cost this nation a shed load.

 

[Stat Brother]

I tried not to respond, but your post illustrates exactly why Labour continues to struggle. The attitude that the media creates Tory voters' preferences rather than that they can think for themselves. The smug belief that only Labour voters are smart enough to vote intelligently because the Guardian or the Mirror tell the truth and they can see that. If Labour want to return to power they need to win hearts and minds of voters with sensible policies that engage with people's circumstances. Labour supporters saying Sun readers are stupid to vote Tory isn't exactly the best way to win them over. And be honest, just examine Corbyn for one of your 'villified' Labour leaders, it was his behaviour, attitudes, policies especially over blocking Brexit and a fanciful manifesto among other things that made him and Labour unelectable. Not the media having an unjustified pop at him.

The Labour Party almost never offer up a viable alternative to Conservative rule.

Blair did because he was a Tory in Labour clothing, while the Tories were in disarray.
Half his party hated him for it and fought him all the way.

There's every chance Starmer will be Blair II.
There's also every chance in his first (and only) term his own party will turn on him, and in-fight their way to another 25 years of Conservative government.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Did he never instruct his MPs to block the bill?

Fair dos.

Bercow and Corbyn cost this nation a shed load.

I'll let Factcheck answer that question.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-changing-brexit-stance

John Bercow was a Speaker in the manner of Betty Boothroyd, not allowing contempt of Parliament and pulling up those who seek to mock instead of debating. He was a Tory and not a puppet like Labour's Sir Lindsay Hoyle who ignores the misbehaviour in the House.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'll let Factcheck answer that question.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-changing-brexit-stance

John Bercow was a Speaker in the manner of Betty Boothroyd, not allowing contempt of Parliament and pulling up those who seek to mock instead of debating. He was a Tory and not a puppet like Labour's Sir Lindsay Hoyle who ignores the misbehaviour in the House.

Thanks

I must use that Factcheck more often.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Corbyn was for Brexit so where did you get the idea he tried to block it? Maybe you read it somewhere?


In the meantime, the latest dead cat has been thrown onto the table. Even a Tory MP is calling the nonsense out for what it is.

[tweet]1530662026258919424[/tweet]


Imagine the costs to retail having to replace all their scales and tills!!!

I like the Weights and Measures Inspector's answer to the 'Bruges Group' Another group taking tax payers money like the ERG and TaxPayersAlliance for 'research'.

[tweet]1530657230579703811[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Over a million people marched peacefully because they could see through the lies of Brexit, but it made no difference. This government still went for the hardest deal they could.
Now it is illegal to protest, punishable by up to ten years in prison.

[tweet]1530144453377540096[/tweet]