[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Berty23]

Imagine being an MP who said “I will wait for the Sue Gray report to see if there was any wrongdoing” and then reading that report and thinking “yep. No worries. He did nothing wrong”

 

[raymondo]

Playing Devil's advocate, we have two threads on the recent gun killing of school kids. This is in part the consequence of a constitution (that guarantees the right to carry arms) - an immutable set of rules that can, and almost inevitably, will become obsolete at some point and hence a millstone around a nation's neck.

We don't need a written constitution. We have laws.

We do perhaps need to change some of the rules. For examply Johnson is getting away with misleading parliament because it is an offence only if you do so knowingly and deliberately. All you need to do is apologize and say it was unintentional and all will be well.

That said, there is an argument that the executive should not be bound by rules that preclude nimble and necessary action in times of crisis. This is pretty much Johnson's defense (that, and that he did not knowingly and deliberately break rules and if he did he is 'humbled'). A significant number of us public, punters and people in general accept this, and are part of the 'time to move on' movement. I don't agree with the sentiment (because Johnson's mien speaks to the issue of trust) but I understand it.

The question is what can be done about this? I suspect nothing, till the next general election. Then, tactical voting and attempts, somehow, to persuade the floating voter to forget about Dianne Abbott, Captain Hindsight and whatabout Jeremy Corbyn.

It won't be easy.

Indeed, it won't be easy, but...

 

[timbha]

The residual risk would have been to shut the curtains

Not sure I understand ??

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Imagine being an MP who said “I will wait for the Sue Gray report to see if there was any wrongdoing” and then reading that report and thinking “yep. No worries. He did nothing wrong”

Indeed. Which has reminded me to reply to my local (tory) MP, who went with the 'I take it very seriously, but await the report' line, when I wrote to him last month.

 

[Commander]

I think I've spoken about this before but how our parliament works really gets on my nerves. You'd think in a civilised society our elected representatives would be able to say their piece in a debate and not be heckled or barracked or shouted over. There's all these rules about respect and decency in that chamber but they're all yelling at each other like angry toddlers.

Absolutely agree. It's insane. If somebody did that in a meeting in my company, I'd kick them out the meeting room and tell them not to bother coming back for the next one. It is utterly ridiculous that this is how the leaders of our country holds debates. But then the whole system is utterly ridiculous anyway, it's set up for a civilisation hundreds of years ago and isn't fit in any shape or form for running a country in 2022. It's no wonder very few really talented people want to go in to politics. Especially when you couple that with the fact they can earn way more money in the private sector, without any of the scrutiny and hassle.

 

[JBizzle]

It will fall to the electorate to remove them. If they don't at the next opportunity, all hope for this country is lost

Sadly, large swathes of the country will vote for anyone with a blue rosette or won't vote switch to Labour or the Lib Dems/Greens because a) something about Blair or Brown or b) the Lib Dems have never governed/don't like cycle lanes.

You just have to hope that enough people just simply don't vote Tory at the next election, but I'm sure that around that time the right wing PR machine will swing well into action to back their boys in blue.

 

[A1X]

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[Pavilionaire]

If the photo leaked to ITV of Boris toasting one of his gatherings with the tableful of booze and snacks was a taster of things to come, then the main event - the Sue Gray Report - is something of a damb squib.

I have read the Sue Gray Report in full. She mentions several times she let the police investigation take precedence, chose not to go over the same ground and accepted their findings. Yet the findings of the Report and the relatively few FPNs handed out by police indicate that the police's response has been incredibly lenient.

We have to ask why this is, and why there is no indication that officers on duty at No. 10 did anything at the time these gatherings were going on? Cressida Dick appears to have gotten away with murder for her staff turning a blind eye for the best part of 2 years. I expect she'll receive full honours for doing her bit to keep Boris in his job.

 

[clapham_gull]

Johnson only has two leavers to pull.

Keeping the lunatic fringe of his party happy with a neo liberal small state low tax rhetoric and spend money to keep his new voters and MPs happy.

At some point the gear box is going to break.

I'm amazed his party hasn't dumped him because he is a complete liability to their success at the General Election.

He's still there because the MPs know he can be manipulated.

 

[Stato]

Given that Johnson's shield throughout this has been 'Sorry for that, but what is now important is that we get on with... (Covid / Ukraine / Cost of Living / Energy Crisis / (Delete as appropriate))', I can't believe that nobody on the opposition benches has thought to ask something like: "Why does the PM have no confidence that any of his colleagues have the capacity to lead on these issues?", "How does the rest of the cabinet disagree with his current approach over (e.g.) Ukraine?", or "What gives him such a sense of his own exceptionalism that he can argue that his resignation, although completely warranted by his actions, is just not possible because he alone is irreplaceable?"

 

[Audax]

Wondering if anyone has put together a list of all the Boris Johnson policy U-turns in the last couple of years, and where the pressure that resulted in those U-turns originated.

If, as has been predicted, they U-turn again on a Windfall tax it will be only the latest in what I expect is a long chain of u-turns off the back of Labour demands (although usually the u-turn happens to head off a Tory backbench revolt, my recollection is that Labour has initiated the calls on many occasions). Would be interested in seeing it, given one of Boris' favourite diversionary tactics is to claim Labour aren't doing anything while he gets on with the job.

 

[beorhthelm]

If the photo leaked to ITV of Boris toasting one of his gatherings with the tableful of booze and snacks was a taster of things to come, then the main event - the Sue Gray Report - is something of a damb squib.

I have read the Sue Gray Report in full. She mentions several times she let the police investigation take precedence, chose not to go over the same ground and accepted their findings. Yet the findings of the Report and the relatively few FPNs handed out by police indicate that the police's response has been incredibly lenient.

We have to ask why this is, and why there is no indication that officers on duty at No. 10 did anything at the time these gatherings were going on? Cressida Dick appears to have gotten away with murder for her staff turning a blind eye for the best part of 2 years. I expect she'll receive full honours for doing her bit to keep Boris in his job.

as covered last night, workplaces were exempted from the rules on "gatherings". so superfically they look like people at work having too much to drink. thats not an offence, so nothing to turn a blind eye. yes, this raises other questions but there is it.

 

[Stato]

Yet the findings of the Report and the relatively few FPNs handed out by police indicate that the police's response has been incredibly lenient.

We have to ask why this is...

This might answer your question: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/25/met-partygate-inquiry-latest-run-in-police-politics

"The next year it was the Conservatives’ turn. In 2008 the then Labour Home Office felt secrets were being leaked to the Tory immigration spokesperson Damian Green. Because of a potential risk to national security, the investigation was led by the then assistant commissioner Robert Quick, the head of counter-terrorism. His deputy was Dick.

The Tories were furious when Green was arrested in 2008 and his office raided. The Met were left red-faced when no charges followed. Quick felt parts of the Tory-supporting press dug up dirt on him as payback and that he was a marked man. He resigned in 2009 after sensitive papers he was holding were photographed by a long lens as he arrived in Downing Street.

Asked recently if the experience may have affected Dick’s appetite for investigating the politically powerful, Quick quipped: “She saw what happened to me.”"

Of course Cressida Dick left her role in April, before the investigation was complete. The current acting Met Police Commissioner is Stephen House, who left his role as chief of police in Scotland after being 'effectively sacked' by Nicola Sturgeon: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stephen-house-met-police-job-b2046534.html. Presumably, with that kind of experience, he didn't even need to see what happened to anyone else.

People have made a big deal of Sue Grey being asked to investigate her boss. Although nominally appointed by the Mayor, in effect, the Met were being asked to do the same.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

as covered last night, workplaces were exempted from the rules on "gatherings". so superfically they look like people at work having too much to drink. thats not an offence, so nothing to turn a blind eye. yes, this raises other questions but there is it.

Why did Allegra Stratton have to resign just for laughing about these gatherings?

People drinking up to 04.00 on the day of Prince Philip's funeral. Being asked to leave by the back door, so as not to be seen? Yes, just work gatherings.

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[pb21]

Given that Johnson's shield throughout this has been 'Sorry for that, but what is now important is that we get on with... (Covid / Ukraine / Cost of Living / Energy Crisis / (Delete as appropriate))', I can't believe that nobody on the opposition benches has thought to ask something like: "Why does the PM have no confidence that any of his colleagues have the capacity to lead on these issues?", "How does the rest of the cabinet disagree with his current approach over (e.g.) Ukraine?", or "What gives him such a sense of his own exceptionalism that he can argue that his resignation, although completely warranted by his actions, is just not possible because he alone is irreplaceable?"

At the same time as this, considering that the No10 government leadership has been independently concluded to be an unacceptable failure, how on earth are Tory MPs happy to say that the same unacceptable failure of leadership is appropriate to lead us through some tough, potentially very tough times ahead?

 

[Audax]

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[beorhthelm]

Why did Allegra Stratton have to resign just for laughing about these gatherings?

because it was embarressing, went against the public messaging and caught on camera.

this isnt excuse of condoning the behaviour, just some explaination of how this happened.

 

[Stato]

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Today's polls suggest that Labour would be the largest party and, with Sinn Fein and Speakers removed, may be able to govern with the support of the Lib Dems, SDLP and Greens without needing to deal with the SNP.

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[A1X]

[tweet]1529451532864864262[/tweet]

It's turning into a case of short term pain for long term gain for the Tories. If they were to ditch Johnson imminently (by that I mean before the summer recess which is about 5-6 weeks time) then they might just be able to turn things around in two years (or go for a snap election hoping for a new leader bounce). But that only works if the new incumbent is someone removed from the current shambles (e.g. Tugendhat) rather than one of those in the current inner circle (e.g. Gove). The longer they choose to stick with him the worse it gets, I cannot see a scenario by which Johnson turns it around and wins in his own right in 2024. People have made their minds up, just as they did with PMs before him. And once that happens then it's incredibly rare for it to be turned around.

I would also argue the Starmer issue is largely irrelevant as Labour look to have got their house in order, unless they go full bonkers and elect Dianne Abbott (which I think is about as likely as Neal Maupay being signed by Real Madrid this summer in lieu of getting Mbappe).

 

[TomandJerry]

The Metropolitan police is facing legal action over the way it handled allegations of the prime minister breaking lockdown rules by attending parties in Downing Street, the Guardian has learned.

The former Met police chief Brian Paddick is part of a group arguing the Met blundered and acted “irrationally” in its investigation.

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