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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,282
Seaford
The Police don't even seem to know what it is they are actually investigating. CGT avoidance is an HMRC issue - so it can only be electoral fraud or council-tax evasion.
In this instance, the police are simply a tool being used by the Tory government (again) to pursue a minor misdemeanor (at best). The police don't need to know WHAT they're investigating, the Tories just need people to believe that they ARE investigating.

Over the next 6 months, there will be more and more red herrings thrown to the masses in the hope that'll be enough for some to draw the necessary false equivalences to vote blue in the next GE.
 




Nobby

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2007
2,905
There was a song about hiding your true colours wasn’t there.
Local PC election leaflet arrived 🤣🤣
 

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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,721
Faversham
It's like the curry story. That got 11 (eleven) consecutive front pages in The Mail on the lead up to local elections.
I don't even know what the curry story is!

That's because I probably exist an a realm far far away from the reaches of the Hitler Apologists and their wives-of-bankers* readership

*Including euphemistic ones.
 


Jul 20, 2003
20,825
I don't even know what the curry story is!

That's because I probably exist an a realm far far away from the reaches of the Hitler Apologists and their wives-of-bankers* readership

*Including euphemistic ones.


That was the one were Starmer and some colleagues took half an hour off work to eat a curry. James Dellingpole's son just happened to be out for an evening stroll in the area and got a picture of Starmer drinking a bottle of beer.

This as THE biggest story in the Daily Mail when the details of the endemic Bacchanelean excess at number 10 started to filter through.
 


rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
5,031
Just thought I'd look up Angie's diabolical tax fraud debacle....

f*** me. The most she owes is £3,500, but the most likely amount she owes is faaaaark all. Nothing.

And does this mean that Labour are hypocrites, unfit to govern, and that the conservatives should continue their rightful role of running the country and massively enriching themselves and their friends? Yes. Yes it does. Of course it does.


:facepalm: :shootself
But it isn't as straightforward as you imply.

A married couple (and you are deemed to be a married couple unless you have formally separated) can only have one property which qualifies for "main residence relief" ie qualifies for CGT exemption.

If, upon marriage, both spouses own a property they have 2 years to elect which of those properties qualifies for relief. If no election is made during that two year period HMRC will decide "on the facts" which property is the main residence.

There is no doubt that Ms Rayner's Stockport property will have qualified as her main residence up until she married. That period would be exempt on a time-apportioned basis (as would the last 9 months of ownership).

Ms Rayner says she has "legal advice" that there is no tax to pay. Fair enough then she and her husband have either elected on marriage (or within 2 years of marriage) for the Stockport property to be their main residence. This would expose the London property to CGT from the date the election became effective. (The alternative where hmrc has determined that the Stockport property was their main residence seems unlikely).


So there you have it! If there is nothing to hide, then I don't understand why she is so reluctant to publish her "legal advice". Even more so if, as you assert, she owes "faaaark all". If it is at the other end and she has fiddled £3,500 then where do you draw the line with tax evasion? £3.5K? £350K? £3.5m?


I do not understand why she is putting herself, and the Labour Party, through all this grief and aggro for want of publishing Counsel's Opinion that she has properly complied with tax law.
 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,721
Faversham
But it isn't as straightforward as you imply.

A married couple (and you are deemed to be a married couple unless you have formally separated) can only have one property which qualifies for "main residence relief" ie qualifies for CGT exemption.

If, upon marriage, both spouses own a property they have 2 years to elect which of those properties qualifies for relief. If no election is made during that two year period HMRC will decide "on the facts" which property is the main residence.

There is no doubt that Ms Rayner's Stockport property will have qualified as her main residence up until she married. That period would be exempt on a time-apportioned basis (as would the last 9 months of ownership).

Ms Rayner says she has "legal advice" that there is no tax to pay. Fair enough then she and her husband have either elected on marriage (or within 2 years of marriage) for the Stockport property to be their main residence. This would expose the London property to CGT from the date the election became effective. (The alternative where hmrc has determined that the Stockport property was their main residence seems unlikely).


So there you have it! If there is nothing to hide, then I don't understand why she is so reluctant to publish her "legal advice". Even more so if, as you assert, she owes "faaaark all". If it is at the other end and she has fiddled £3,500 then where do you draw the line with tax evasion? £3.5K? £350K? £3.5m?


I do not understand why she is putting herself, and the Labour Party, through all this grief and aggro for want of publishing Counsel's Opinion that she has properly complied with tax law.
TL-DR :shrug:
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,661
Cumbria
But it isn't as straightforward as you imply.

A married couple (and you are deemed to be a married couple unless you have formally separated) can only have one property which qualifies for "main residence relief" ie qualifies for CGT exemption.

If, upon marriage, both spouses own a property they have 2 years to elect which of those properties qualifies for relief. If no election is made during that two year period HMRC will decide "on the facts" which property is the main residence.

There is no doubt that Ms Rayner's Stockport property will have qualified as her main residence up until she married. That period would be exempt on a time-apportioned basis (as would the last 9 months of ownership).

Ms Rayner says she has "legal advice" that there is no tax to pay. Fair enough then she and her husband have either elected on marriage (or within 2 years of marriage) for the Stockport property to be their main residence. This would expose the London property to CGT from the date the election became effective. (The alternative where hmrc has determined that the Stockport property was their main residence seems unlikely).


So there you have it! If there is nothing to hide, then I don't understand why she is so reluctant to publish her "legal advice". Even more so if, as you assert, she owes "faaaark all". If it is at the other end and she has fiddled £3,500 then where do you draw the line with tax evasion? £3.5K? £350K? £3.5m?


I do not understand why she is putting herself, and the Labour Party, through all this grief and aggro for want of publishing Counsel's Opinion that she has properly complied with tax law.
Her husband's house was about a mile away in Stockport - not in London.

Also - CGT is reduced if refurbishments are done, which seems to have happened. So, it would be unlikely to be £3.5k anyway.

She has quite openly said that she did not know of the tax rules re main residences when she sold her house - which is fair enough. I didn't know about them either. So, she didn't make any 'residency declarations' at the time, and wasn't seemingly deliberately 'fiddling the tax man' (and yes, I know ignorance of the law is no defence). And her tax advice is not from then, when she wasn't even an MP - but from now.

That is - she didn't take tax advice then 'fiddle' the system - she is basically saying she didn't know at the time, and has only since found out when the row broke out - so she sought advice to see if she needed to do anything or was in the wrong - and that the advice she has had said she didn't/hadn't. I'm sure it will be published at some time.
 






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,721
Faversham
Her husband's house was about a mile away in Stockport - not in London.

Also - CGT is reduced if refurbishments are done, which seems to have happened. So, it would be unlikely to be £3.5k anyway.

She has quite openly said that she did not know of the tax rules re main residences when she sold her house - which is fair enough. I didn't know about them either. So, she didn't make any 'residency declarations' at the time, and wasn't seemingly deliberately 'fiddling the tax man' (and yes, I know ignorance of the law is no defence). And her tax advice is not from then, when she wasn't even an MP - but from now.

That is - she didn't take tax advice then 'fiddle' the system - she is basically saying she didn't know at the time, and has only since found out when the row broke out - so she sought advice to see if she needed to do anything or was in the wrong - and that the advice she has had said she didn't/hadn't. I'm sure it will be published at some time.
But not in the Daily Fail, though :shrug:
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
But it isn't as straightforward as you imply.

A married couple (and you are deemed to be a married couple unless you have formally separated) can only have one property which qualifies for "main residence relief" ie qualifies for CGT exemption.

If, upon marriage, both spouses own a property they have 2 years to elect which of those properties qualifies for relief. If no election is made during that two year period HMRC will decide "on the facts" which property is the main residence.

There is no doubt that Ms Rayner's Stockport property will have qualified as her main residence up until she married. That period would be exempt on a time-apportioned basis (as would the last 9 months of ownership).

Ms Rayner says she has "legal advice" that there is no tax to pay. Fair enough then she and her husband have either elected on marriage (or within 2 years of marriage) for the Stockport property to be their main residence. This would expose the London property to CGT from the date the election became effective. (The alternative where hmrc has determined that the Stockport property was their main residence seems unlikely).


So there you have it! If there is nothing to hide, then I don't understand why she is so reluctant to publish her "legal advice". Even more so if, as you assert, she owes "faaaark all". If it is at the other end and she has fiddled £3,500 then where do you draw the line with tax evasion? £3.5K? £350K? £3.5m?


I do not understand why she is putting herself, and the Labour Party, through all this grief and aggro for want of publishing Counsel's Opinion that she has properly complied with tax law.
Under UK tax law, married couples can only have one primary residence for tax purposes, and are liable for capital gains tax on the profit from the sale of any other homes. Dan Neidle, founder of the Tax Policy Associates think tank, has estimated Rayner could have been liable to pay £1,500 ($1,871) of capital gains tax on the sale of her home, assuming she made a profit of £48,500. But that could be reduced to zero if she spent £15,000 on home improvements.

(From Bloomberg)
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,661
Cumbria
Under UK tax law, married couples can only have one primary residence for tax purposes, and are liable for capital gains tax on the profit from the sale of any other homes. Dan Neidle, founder of the Tax Policy Associates think tank, has estimated Rayner could have been liable to pay £1,500 ($1,871) of capital gains tax on the sale of her home, assuming she made a profit of £48,500. But that could be reduced to zero if she spent £15,000 on home improvements.

(From Bloomberg)
Presumably the increase in value before she married wouldn't be counted?

That is - if the house increased in value whilst she was living there full-time by, say £20k, and then after she married and seems to have lived in both houses, it went up by another £28k, the CGT would only be liable on the £28k? Otherwise, you would basically be penalised for getting married / moving?
 








Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,832
Brighton
Tory MP defects to Labour.

Good reading. The fact that he is doing this to highlight how awful the Government are rather than to seek re-election later this year (he’ll be standing down) makes him a good chap in my book. Not all Tories are c***s. It’s mostly the current leadership who are just plain nasty, corrupt and incompetent.
 


TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
12,323
In an exclusive TV interview, the MP for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich told the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that he could no longer look his NHS colleagues and patients in the eye and stay on as a Conservative.

Dr Poulter, who works part time as a doctor, said that Conservatives were no longer focused on public services.

Downing Street has just been told of his decision and is yet to respond.

Dr Poulter said he would sit as a Labour MP until the general election and then stand down.
 


TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
12,323
Conservative party staff and activists are secretly operating a network of Facebook groups that have become a hotbed of racism, misinformation and support for criminal damage.

An investigation has identified 36 groups that appear to be separate grassroots movements opposing the expansion of ultra-low emission zone (Ulez) schemes to reduce air pollution. They do not say they were set up by the Conservatives as part of a coordinated political campaign.


The closed groups – which have a combined membership of 38,000 – have been a forum for Islamophobic attacks on Labour’s London mayor Sadiq Khan, with members calling him a “terrorist sympathiser” and a “khaki punt” and saying they would pay to get him “popped”. Other posts promote white supremacist slogans, antisemitic conspiracy theories and have encouraged the destruction of Ulez enforcement cameras.
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,742
Sussex by the Sea
Conservative party staff and activists are secretly operating a network of Facebook groups that have become a hotbed of racism, misinformation and support for criminal damage.

An investigation has identified 36 groups that appear to be separate grassroots movements opposing the expansion of ultra-low emission zone (Ulez) schemes to reduce air pollution. They do not say they were set up by the Conservatives as part of a coordinated political campaign.


The closed groups – which have a combined membership of 38,000 – have been a forum for Islamophobic attacks on Labour’s London mayor Sadiq Khan, with members calling him a “terrorist sympathiser” and a “khaki punt” and saying they would pay to get him “popped”. Other posts promote white supremacist slogans, antisemitic conspiracy theories and have encouraged the destruction of Ulez enforcement cameras.
Where did you cut and paste this from?

My 50p is on The neutral Guardian.
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,946
Good reading. The fact that he is doing this to highlight how awful the Government are rather than to seek re-election later this year (he’ll be standing down) makes him a good chap in my book. Not all Tories are c***s. It’s mostly the current leadership who are just plain nasty, corrupt and incompetent.

He's been working as a doctor for the last 14 years, has served under this current cabal for the last 5 and hasn't noticed what has been going on with the NHS ? Sorry, but I smell the distinct whiff of :shit:

Most one nation conservatives left the leadership (and in a lot of cases, the party) a few years ago and the rump of the party that is left has a long, long haul back to anything like electable.
 
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