[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Weststander]

You've missed prosecutions for setting up dodgy companies for the PPE 'Fast Path Program' which, of course, has already been ruled illegal

I couldn’t cover all (alleged) criminality .

 

[WATFORD zero]

I bet it doesn’t change. Labour in power wouldn’t want this if eg KS was ousted. Governments like to pick the moment when riding better in the polls.

I think it's time for a proper constitution, some form of proportional representation and a split up of the red/blue control over the country depending on a relatively tiny number of swing voters whilst the vast majority have no effect. There's no doubt that FPTP causes and supports this ridiculous two party state where people of fiercely opposing views are in bed together in pursuit of absolute power.

And this cabal has proven that there are absolutely no controls or checks once you have got that absolute power. Britain as a nation is going to suffer from this last 4 years for decades, but nothing will change. Absolute f***ing madness

 

[Weststander]

I think it's time for a proper constitution, some form of proportional representation and a split up of the red/blue control over the country depending on a relatively tiny number of swing voters whilst the vast majority have no effect. There's no doubt that FPTP causes and supports this ridiculous two party state where people of fiercely opposing views are in bed together in pursuit of absolute power.

And this cabal has proven that there are absolutely no controls or checks once you have got that absolute power. Britain as a nation is going to suffer from this last 4 years for decades, but nothing will change. Absolute f***ing madness

That’s a difficult one for me, I do find @Harry Wilson's tackle arguments compelling.

My other issues with PR would be:
1. A far-ish right party would have a swathe of seats in the Commons. I’m not talking Pritti Patel. Instead Farage, overt racists, all those male and female weirdo’s who took turns in leading UKIP and BREXIT. Sadly, 20% of the country would vote for them. You might not be bothered by just one fifth, but imagine the platform they’d then have.
2. Would genuinely far right and left parties get seats, think Marie Le Pen?
3. We must somehow keep the link to voting out an unsavoury or bent character. Lists provided by parties mean cnts might get in by the back door.

I do realise that PR by its very nature is equitable. But it’s not a panacea, look at nations where it’s riddled with chaos.

 

[WATFORD zero]

That’s a difficult one for me, I do find @Harry Wilson's tackle arguments compelling.

My other issues with PR would be:
1. A far-ish right party would have a swathe of seats in the Commons. I’m not talking Pritti Patel. Instead Farage, overt racists, all those male and female weirdo’s who took turns in leading UKIP and BREXIT. Sadly, 20% of the country would vote for them. You might not be bothered by just one fifth, but imagine the platform they’d then have.
2. Would genuinely far right and left parties get seats, think Marie Le Pen?
3. We must somehow keep the link to voting out an unsavoury or bent character. Lists provided by parties mean cnts might get in by the back door.

I do realise that PR by its very nature is equitable. But it’s not a panacea, look at nations where it’s riddled with chaos.

I would suggest that we have had a far-ish right cabal in complete control of this country for the last four years, with absolutely nobody else in Government to provide balance, and that if the UKIP/BREXIT parties had been represented in Parliament reflecting the votes they got, the Conservative party wouldn't have ended up where it is now. This current situation is a direct result of FPTP.

Yes there would be extreme parties, but it would be balanced by far more moderate ones, a bit like the actual electorate.

Have a look how many parliaments have some form of PR and how many use FPTP and which are 'riddled with chaos'. And I seem to remember Harry wasn't happy with a choice of Johnson or Corbyn, again a direct result of FPTP

 

[Weststander]

I would suggest that we have had a far-ish right cabal in complete control of this country for the last four years, with absolutely nobody else in Government to provide balance, and that if the UKIP/BREXIT parties had been represented in Parliament reflecting the votes they got, the Conservative party wouldn't have ended up where it is now. This current situation is a direct result of FPTP.

Have a look how many parliaments have some form of PR and how many use FPTP and which are 'riddled with chaos'

I haven’t carried out a straw poll now, but I’m aware of Italy in the past, and shenanigans in Spain of late. In Spain’s last two elections the very far right party that in essence denies mass murder/atrocities by Franco and worse, has been a hair’s width from real power in a coalition.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I haven’t carried out a straw poll now, but I’m aware of Italy in the past, and shenanigans in Spain of late. In Spain’s last two elections the very far right party that in essence denies mass murder/atrocities by Franco and worse, has been a hair’s width from real power in a coalition.

Even in a coalition any extremists power is limited by the other moderate members of the coalition. And besides, we're not Italian or Spanish, we're BRITISH

I'm not suggesting those countries do, but if another countries population has a huge majority of Fascists, then shirley that's the Government they should get

 

[Weststander]

Even in a coalition any extremists power is limited by the other moderate members of the coalition. And besides, we're not Italian or Spanish, we're BRITISH

If another countries population has a huge majority of Fascists, then shirley that's the Government they should get

Don’t get me wrong, I like PR but want a system that’s best at dealing with stuff eg MP elected through a list. I want a constituency to somehow choose the person.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I haven’t carried out a straw poll now, but I’m aware of Italy in the past, and shenanigans in Spain of late. In Spain’s last two elections the very far right party that in essence denies mass murder/atrocities by Franco and worse, has been a hair’s width from real power in a coalition.

Every country in Europe bar us and Belarus has PR. Every country has problems, but Italy & Spain are not the norm.

 

[Weststander]

Every country in Europe bar us and Belarus has PR. Every country has problems, but Italy & Spain are not the norm.

That’s the; wish that we’re north European sensible like the Germans. I’d hope so.

But I’d fear for the Farage types disrupting.

Anyway, it’s likely over a decade away. For obvious reasons Labour will keep FPTP.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That’s the; wish that we’re north European sensible like the Germans. I’d hope so.

But I’d fear for the Farage types disrupting.

Anyway, it’s likely over a decade away. For obvious reasons Labour will keep FPTP.

I agree. The last poll was skewed by mentioning second choice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That’s a difficult one for me, I do find @Harry Wilson's tackle arguments compelling.

My other issues with PR would be:
1. A far-ish right party would have a swathe of seats in the Commons. I’m not talking Pritti Patel. Instead Farage, overt racists, all those male and female weirdo’s who took turns in leading UKIP and BREXIT. Sadly, 20% of the country would vote for them. You might not be bothered by just one fifth, but imagine the platform they’d then have.
2. Would genuinely far right and left parties get seats, think Marie Le Pen?
3. We must somehow keep the link to voting out an unsavoury or bent character. Lists provided by parties mean cnts might get in by the back door.

I do realise that PR by its very nature is equitable. But it’s not a panacea, look at nations where it’s riddled with chaos.

Yep. Farage with a 'legitimate' platform to spout nasty old bollocks in the house in exchange for money. Bringing parliament into disrepute? You bethcha

 

[A1X]

Cue about a million “zombie Government” puns

 

[vegster]

Cue about a million “zombie Government” puns

Sunak might be dead and buried long before then.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Sunak might be dead and buried long before then.

night of the living dead ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Tories boast of record NHS funding, but where, exactly is the funding going?

 

[Lenny Rider]

Question which bizarrely came up in our Spanish bar last night, which I now put to the NSC political massive……


Would this country be any different now socially and politically if Nick Clegg had propped up Gordon Brown rather than David Cameron in 2010 and formed a Lab/Lib coalition?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Question which bizarrely came up in our Spanish bar last night, which I now put to the NSC political massive……


Would this country be any different now socially and politically if Nick Clegg had propped up Gordon Brown rather than David Cameron in 2010 and formed a Lab/Lib coalition

 

[chickens]

Question which bizarrely came up in our Spanish bar last night, which I now put to the NSC political massive……


Would this country be any different now socially and politically if Nick Clegg had propped up Gordon Brown rather than David Cameron in 2010 and formed a Lab/Lib coalition?

Significantly. We’d be in the EU for one thing. We’d have not allowed the Blonde Bullshitter his opportunist lunge for power. We’d be wealthier per capita, we’d (assuming the coalition or either Lab/Lib had survived into a second term) not have spaffed so many millions on private services companies during Covid and instead used our trained health workers to operate the vaccine rollout and test and trace.

If Gordon Brown had been in a position of power during Covid, he had many faults but was capable of handling detail. I suspect there would have been clearer more consistent guidance and a better designed furlough scheme.

We wouldn’t have suffered any of the supply chain or border control issues we’ve had as a result of Brexit, and we wouldn’t have been subjected to the loss of international influence and credibility that we’ve endured in the last few years.

However, Britain voted for stupidity and prejudice, and has reaped the reward.

A slow handclap for the Conservative Party of Britain from me.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Question which bizarrely came up in our Spanish bar last night, which I now put to the NSC political massive……


Would this country be any different now socially and politically if Nick Clegg had propped up Gordon Brown rather than David Cameron in 2010 and formed a Lab/Lib coalition?

Nick Clegg was never going to work with Labour. When he stepped down from politics he worked for Facebook. As much a Tory as Cameron.

 

[beorhthelm]

Significantly. We’d be in the EU for one thing. We’d have not allowed the Blonde Bullshitter his opportunist lunge for power. We’d be wealthier per capita, we’d (assuming the coalition or either Lab/Lib had survived into a second term) not have spaffed so many millions on private services companies during Covid and instead used our trained health workers to operate the vaccine rollout and test and trace.

If Gordon Brown had been in a position of power during Covid, he had many faults but was capable of handling detail. I suspect there would have been clearer more consistent guidance and a better designed furlough scheme.

We wouldn’t have suffered any of the supply chain or border control issues we’ve had as a result of Brexit, and we wouldn’t have been subjected to the loss of international influence and credibility that we’ve endured in the last few years.

However, Britain voted for stupidity and prejudice, and has reaped the reward.

A slow handclap for the Conservative Party of Britain from me.

more likely after a parliament of Brown/Darling conflict of spending/cuts, we'd have seen Conservatives voted in 2015. no idea who would have been leader, maybe Cameron stayed on a "nearly won" basis. popularity of UKIP would probably have been similar, might even have got a few seats, pressing for that referendum, maybe not as early and different outcome without Johnson cheerleading. Covid would still happen, similar advisors in place with initial reactions, though Cameron more competent. we'd still have had the Ukraine war too, and the effect of that on world economy. so probably in EU, no Johnson PM, bit better but not much different.