Tony Bloom is to blame for the mess we are in....

[Bozza]

Not sack the entire scouting staff, no (unless they're all totally incompetent), but a new manager may want to appoint his own choice of a chief scout, same way as some will want to bring in their own assistant manager, first team coach, etc.

....and the chief scout will almost certainly have his own preferred scouts. And so it goes on.

Did you think this idea through very well?

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Any good manager will want total autonomy over his players, he then lives or dies by his sword, but he will, instinctively know that he is good enough to do well with his own judgement. No manager will trust someone else choosing his players or he will have a ready made excuse, as now.......

 

[GT49er]

....and the chief scout will almost certainly have his own preferred scouts. And so it goes on.

Did you think this idea through very well?

Yep, quite happy with my thought process, thanks.

 

[symyjym]

My question stands. IN [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION]'s world the reporting line of the scouting network is though the manager. Let's accept that.

So, does each manager get to choose who makes up that scouting network or does he take what he's given? If it's the former, it could be expensive. If it's the latter, a number of managerial candidates could rule themselves out.

For example Paul Winstanley, who has just joined us, was in player recruitment job at Derby. Steve McLaren joined and wanted his own man to be doing the job. Derby were able to retain PW by giving him another position, but that may not always be the case - people may need to be laid off and that doesn't come cheap. Particularly if managers change frequently and they all want their own people.

I fully understand the reason for continuity in the scouting department, but what it also requires is a great working relationship and trust between the manager and the head of football. If you haven't got that there is not much left to go on because our setup is wide apart on this.

 

[Bozza]

I fully understand the reason for continuity in the scouting department, but what it also requires is a great working relationship and trust between the manager and the head of football. If you haven't got that there is not much left to go on.

So, are you saying that such a relationship categorically doesn't exist? Or are you just guessing it doesn't?

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

I find it hard to understand why many people seem to think that the way our recruitment is set up is one of the main reasons why we are where we are.

I fully accept that it hasn't been working very successfully but that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is wrong, maybe it needs a bit of tweaking, maybe there are other reasons why it's not worked properly, who knows? Certainly not me and, I suspect, certainly not 99% of people on here.

In this day and age I really do not think it is practical to have the manager heavily involved in this. It seems to me he should have the final say on whether anybody is recruited and this is what the club have consistently said happens, regardless of what NSC seem to think is the case. Either the club are telling the truth and the manager DOES have the final say or they are lying. Why would they lie?

It seems to me that the manager needs to be involved very early on in the process, either identifying his own targets or at least the type of player he wants so that we don't waste time tracking down players that the manager doesn't want. There is no way the manager can have a good knowledge of all possible players. Yes he will know many of them, may well have had them in a previous job or even played with or against them but these players are likely to be the tip of the iceberg of the possible players; there will be many others that he does not know, especially younger players and players from overseas.

We need a specialised team to do the donkey work, as long as the manager (a) makes it clear up front the type of player he wants and (b) has the final say.

This is the system that the club consistently tell us is in place. So why do so many people on NSC not believe them?

 

[GT49er]

My question stands. IN [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION]'s world the reporting line of the scouting network is though the manager. Let's accept that.

So, does each manager get to choose who makes up that scouting network or does he take what he's given? If it's the former, it could be expensive. If it's the latter, a number of managerial candidates could rule themselves out.

For example Paul Winstanley, who has just joined us, was in player recruitment job at Derby. Steve McLaren joined and wanted his own man to be doing the job. Derby were able to retain PW by giving him another position, but that may not always be the case - people may need to be laid off and that doesn't come cheap. Particularly if managers change frequently and they all want their own people.

Quite. There will obviously be negotiations needed, and yes, changing the manager is likely to be an expensive business.

But replacing the entire scouting network? Of course not. If TB decided to replace PB, would the new man want to sack all the office staff and bring in his own? I don't think so.

 

[symyjym]

So, are you saying that such a relationship categorically doesn't exist? Or are you just guessing it doesn't?

Only as much as you are guessing it is perfect.

 

[Bozza]

But replacing the entire scouting network? Of course not. If TB decided to replace PB, would the new man want to sack all the office staff and bring in his own? I don't think so.

Are you aware of how many positions in the club have changed under PB's stewardship?!?

 

[Bozza]

Only as much as you are guessing it is perfect.

I'm not guessing at all - I'm happy to say I don't know, because I don't.

There are plenty of other people who seem to believe they do know, however. They just all seem to struggle with evidencing that.

 

[spanish flair]

W

I find it hard to understand why many people seem to think that the way our recruitment is set up is one of the main reasons why we are where we are.

I fully accept that it hasn't been working very successfully but that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is wrong, maybe it needs a bit of tweaking, maybe there are other reasons why it's not worked properly, who knows? Certainly not me and, I suspect, certainly not 99% of people on here.

In this day and age I really do not think it is practical to have the manager heavily involved in this. It seems to me he should have the final say on whether anybody is recruited and this is what the club have consistently said happens, regardless of what NSC seem to think is the case. Either the club are telling the truth and the manager DOES have the final say or they are lying. Why would they lie?

It seems to me that the manager needs to be involved very early on in the process, either identifying his own targets or at least the type of player he wants so that we don't waste time tracking down players that the manager doesn't want. There is no way the manager can have a good knowledge of all possible players. Yes he will know many of them, may well have had them in a previous job or even played with or against them but these players are likely to be the tip of the iceberg of the possible players; there will be many others that he does not know, especially younger players and players from overseas.

We need a specialised team to do the donkey work, as long as the manager (a) makes it clear up front the type of player he wants and (b) has the final say.

This is the system that the club consistently tell us is in place. So why do so many people on NSC not believe them?

Possibly because the last three managers have made noises that they are not happy with it and they have to work with it.

 

[symyjym]

I'm not guessing at all - I'm happy to say I don't know, because I don't.

There are plenty of other people who seem to believe they do know, however. They just all seem to struggle with evidencing that.

But I didn't say how it was, I only said how think it should be which is not guessing anything.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

W

Possibly because the last three managers have made noises that they are not happy with it and they have to work with it.

Where have they said they aren't happy with it? As far as I'm aware the only one who has commented is Sami and he said he found it a little strange because he was used to being LESS involved in recruitment.

Is your comment another example of NSC adding 2 and 2 together and making 5? You may be right, I don't know, I haven't any evidence either way. Have you?

 

[GT49er]

Are you aware of how many positions in the club have changed under PB's stewardship?!?

No, of course I haven't. But I very much doubt it's all the staff.

(And of course, some of the changes will have been natural comings and goings in the course of the 2-3 (?) years he's been in post).

 

[spanish flair]

Where have they said they aren't happy with it? As far as I'm aware the only one who has commented is Sami and he said he found it a little strange because he was used to being LESS involved in recruitment.

Is your comment another example of NSC adding 2 and 2 together and making 5? You may be right, I don't know, I haven't any evidence either way. Have you?

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....for_talks_after_reports_he_offered_to_resign/
The Spaniard, in the first year of a three-year contract, had no contact with any Board member yesterday as Albion were knocked out of the Championship play-offs by Derby County.

That is expected to change in the next 24 hours. Oscar is set for pivotal discussions with Bloom.

The Argus understands the head coach has been dissatisfied for some time with certain aspects of the set-up behind the scenes. These include Albion's transfer dealings and the budget for strengthening the squad

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29994641

"We can't bring similar players to what we already have," Hyypia, 41, added.
"We need to find somebody or something else which we don't have."
The Sussex side have won one of their last 13 games in the Championship and are currently one point above the relegation zone.
Asked if Brighton could wait until January to bolster their attack, the Finn replied: "It's not up to me


Along with Gus saying we have hit the ceiling with regard to signings, I read these quotes as none of them have been or are, exactly over the moon about the system, but perhaps I am wrong.

 

[terryberry1]

We really are a joke of a club at the moment from top to bottom. Heads need to roll soon

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....for_talks_after_reports_he_offered_to_resign/
The Spaniard, in the first year of a three-year contract, had no contact with any Board member yesterday as Albion were knocked out of the Championship play-offs by Derby County.

That is expected to change in the next 24 hours. Oscar is set for pivotal discussions with Bloom.

The Argus understands the head coach has been dissatisfied for some time with certain aspects of the set-up behind the scenes. These include Albion's transfer dealings and the budget for strengthening the squad

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29994641

"We can't bring similar players to what we already have," Hyypia, 41, added.
"We need to find somebody or something else which we don't have."
The Sussex side have won one of their last 13 games in the Championship and are currently one point above the relegation zone.
Asked if Brighton could wait until January to bolster their attack, the Finn replied: "It's not up to me


Along with Gus saying we have hit the ceiling with regard to signings, I read these quotes as none of them have been or are, exactly over the moon about the system, but perhaps I am wrong.

OK, fair enough. I'm guessing that any manager isn't going to be totally happy with a system that isn't under his complete control, and any manager would prefer to have a higher budget. I know I would.

But I still think in this day and age giving a manager full control and running the system himself, whether that be financial or negotiating or just assessing and finding the players, isn't realistic.

Many moons ago a company would have a number of people buying stuff but most companies of any size now have specialist purchasing or procurement departments. A manager decides what he or she wants, then purchasing source it at the best price and quality they can get. I think that model is the way for football clubs these days, certainly in the upper leagues.

Manager says I want a nippy two footed left winger with lots of experience, director of football's people come up with a short list of players, manger says I want him, DoF negotiates the deal. In terms of time the manager's input is minimal allowing him to concentrate on other things, but he sets the specification and has the final decision.

As I understand it that's how we operate. And I think that's the best way, even if it doesn't always produce a perfect result.

 

[spanish flair]

OK, fair enough. I'm guessing that any manager isn't going to be totally happy with a system that isn't under his complete control, and any manager would prefer to have a higher budget. I know I would.

But I still think in this day and age giving a manager full control and running the system himself, whether that be financial or negotiating or just assessing and finding the players, isn't realistic.

Many moons ago a company would have a number of people buying stuff but most companies of any size now have specialist purchasing or procurement departments. A manager decides what he or she wants, then purchasing source it at the best price and quality they can get. I think that model is the way for football clubs these days, certainly in the upper leagues.

Manager says I want a nippy two footed left winger with lots of experience, director of football's people come up with a short list of players, manger says I want him, DoF negotiates the deal. In terms of time the manager's input is minimal allowing him to concentrate on other things, but he sets the specification and has the final decision.

As I understand it that's how we operate. And I think that's the best way, even if it doesn't always produce a perfect result.

But you see there are top managers who wont work any other way than having control over this area, Pullis and Redknapp have publicly stated so in recent weeks and we all know how Gus feels about working this way (Sunderland sacked their DoF very soon after Gus got his feet under the table.)

I think the club like to make us fans believe this is the way it works, Mr Bloom slipped up when he did the post Garcia interview, when he stated all the signings Oscar wanted were either too expensive, or not available, early in the interview, but later he stated when the interviewer asked about how poorly Rodriguez had performed, that he was an Oscar signing? Do you really think Agustein, Chicksen, Lita, Obika and Toko were all Garcia signings and was COG really a player wanted by Hyppia? For me the only signing I would say this season is definitely down to Hyppia, I would say is Teixeira.

 

[symyjym]

If Sami does go we will only be able to get an emergency manager in for the rest of the season, so they will have no direct say in this January transfer window.

 

[spanish flair]

If Sami does go we will only be able to get an emergency manager in for the rest of the season, so they will have no direct say in this January transfer window.

Which I find a real worry Burke and Jones signing players, sends an Obika type shiver down my spine.