[Politics] Tonight,s EU vote and the margin of defeat ?

[DFL JCL]

Disagree.

Having a second referendum for the sole purpose of revoking our democratic decision to leave the EU would expose a critical flaw in the democratic process that would resonate with millions, particularly those who passionately or passively want to leave the EU. How could anyone have faith in referendums or democracy if it is proven to be impotent.

A no-deal scenario and a few weeks of chaos would be incomparably better for the country and its democracy than a second referendum, which would certainly cause irreparable long-term damage. Not that a no-deal is the preferred option, but it is still preferable to a second referendum.

I would suggest that a second referendum equally could be seen as ratifying the first referendum rather than revoking.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Disagree.

Having a second referendum for the sole purpose of revoking our democratic decision to leave the EU would expose a critical flaw in the democratic process that would resonate with millions, particularly those who passionately or passively want to leave the EU. How could anyone have faith in referendums or democracy if it is proven to be impotent.

A no-deal scenario and a few weeks of chaos would be incomparably better for the country and its democracy than a second referendum, which would certainly cause irreparable long-term damage. Not that a no-deal is the preferred option, but it is still preferable to a second referendum.

I would suggest that a second referendum equally could be seen as ratifying the first referendum rather than revoking.

Well quite. The idea that a second vote can only be seen as a means to 'revoke' the outcome of the first, presupposes that we know that Remain would win it. If [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] et al believe that to be the case, then they are admitting that they propose to railroad the country to an outcome that the majority are now opposed to. In the name of 'democracy'.

 

[sahel]

Disagree.

Having a second referendum for the sole purpose of revoking our democratic decision to leave the EU would expose a critical flaw in the democratic process that would resonate with millions, particularly those who passionately or passively want to leave the EU. How could anyone have faith in referendums or democracy if it is proven to be impotent.

A no-deal scenario and a few weeks of chaos would be incomparably better for the country and its democracy than a second referendum, which would certainly cause irreparable long-term damage. Not that a no-deal is the preferred option, but it is still preferable to a second referendum.

Absolutely disagree. If this farce has shown anything then surely it has exposed the stupidity of referendums. We have always had a representative democracy not a direct democracy and hopefully we will now return to that. If the experience of the last two years puts a few people off voting so be it. Maybe a lot more young people will, on the contrary, be politicised and realise they need to vote. If there is a second referendum it will be because of political action by people who care about this country. What is undemocratic about that? Lets have it and then never have another one...ever. Lets then concentrate on getting a decent representative democracy which surely has to be based on a PR system

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Currently opposed to. The outcome of such a referendum would vary depending on the time that is held. The mood of today would surely mean a referendum would vote remain - but in another 2 years time, it is probable that it would swing back to leave.

The best and most democratic solution to deal with an issue that has varying and dynamic public opinion is to honour the results of the initial referendum - and perhaps revisiting the issue years down the line, but only once it has been honoured.

I think the experience of the past couple of years will have made life-long remainers of very many people. We don't want to open this Pandora's Box of nasty again for a long time.

 

[Simster]

Well quite. The idea that a second vote can only be seen as a means to 'revoke' the outcome of the first, presupposes that we know that Remain would win it. If [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] et al believe that to be the case, then they are admitting that they propose to railroad the country to an outcome that the majority are now opposed to. In the name of 'democracy'.

What was the point of the first referendum then? I'm as anti-Brexit as you are, but there is a genuine risk of MILLIONS not bothering with voting ever again if a 2nd referendum happens. Either way, the country has lost. It's either a shithouse Brexit (is there any other sort?) or going to the people to pull back from the brink and simultaneously disenfranchising the millions who voted leave and still disagree we should abandon the idea.

And this is the legacy of the conservatives under May and Cameron. If there was any justice, we wouldn't see that crap party again for decades. They have taken a shit on centuries-old parliamentary process by gambling the country's future to resolve an internal squabble, and they didn't even have the decency to organise it properly. Both campaigns based on tissues of lies, no thought on what happened if leave won, no "super" majority requirement, meaning a result that falls well within a margin of error, at least one MP who only supported one side in an attempt to engineer a leadership challenge, and a negotiation from a feeble Prime Minister resulting in an absolutely terrible, un-backable deal.

What an utterly disgraceful, shambolic government.

 

[Hamilton]

Disagree.

Having a second referendum for the sole purpose of revoking our democratic decision to leave the EU would expose a critical flaw in the democratic process that would resonate with millions, particularly those who passionately or passively want to leave the EU. How could anyone have faith in referendums or democracy if it is proven to be impotent.

A no-deal scenario and a few weeks of chaos would be incomparably better for the country and its democracy than a second referendum, which would certainly cause irreparable long-term damage. Not that a no-deal is the preferred option, but it is still preferable to a second referendum.

A few weeks of chaos?

Oh, in that case I'll just book myself a two-week holiday somewhere hot for the start of April.

Why didn't you say this in the first place?!

 

[DFL JCL]

What was the point of the first referendum then? I'm as anti-Brexit as you are, but there is a genuine risk of MILLIONS not bothering with voting ever again if a 2nd referendum happens. Either way, the country has lost. It's either a shithouse Brexit (is there any other sort?) or going to the people to pull back from the brink and simultaneously disenfranchising the millions who voted leave and still disagree we should abandon the idea.

And this is the legacy of the conservatives under May and Cameron. If there was any justice, we wouldn't see that crap party again for decades. They have taken a shit on centuries-old parliamentary process by gambling the country's future to resolve an internal squabble, and they didn't even have the decency to organise it properly. Both campaigns based on tissues of lies, no thought on what happened if leave won, no "super" majority requirement, meaning a result that falls well within a margin of error, at least one MP who only supported one side in an attempt to engineer a leadership challenge, and a negotiation from a feeble Prime Minister resulting in an absolutely terrible, un-backable deal.

What an utterly disgraceful, shambolic government.

Good question, what was the point of the first referendum? To my mind, the first referendum should have been used to ascertain whether there was appetite for Brexit. A second referendum could then have been used to ratify the details of the negotiated deal and the countries commitment to the deal. I appreciate this is all a bit of 2020 hindsight but i think it just highlights that the original question, with the information that was available at the time was a tad reckless.

 

[Hamilton]

PS there won't be a second referendum anyhow. Neither party's leadership wants one.

 

[DFL JCL]

PS there won't be a second referendum anyhow. Neither party's leadership wants one.

yet

 

[Triggaaar]

always. But its true, for all the criticism of those of us wanting to keep the UK in the EU, we could have been shut down once and for all yesterday. And we weren't.

Sure, but you said that the Brexiteers didn't take the chance - they didn't have the chance, the MPs in parliament are mostly remainers.

 

[Da Man Clay]

PS there won't be a second referendum anyhow. Neither party's leadership wants one.

I imagine that will change about 7:45 tonight.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I imagine that will change about 7:45 tonight.

Indeed.

I’m not sure why it is so difficult for people to grasp that Corbyn will keep the 2nd Referendum firmly off the table until the vote of no confidence has failed?

As was agreed at their party conference, the 2nd Referendum will be considered once a general election is ruled out.

 

[Triggaaar]

What was the point of the first referendum then? I'm as anti-Brexit as you are, but there is a genuine risk of MILLIONS not bothering with voting ever again if a 2nd referendum happens. Either way, the country has lost. It's either a shithouse Brexit (is there any other sort?) or going to the people to pull back from the brink and simultaneously disenfranchising the millions who voted leave and still disagree we should abandon the idea.

And this is the legacy of the conservatives under May and Cameron. If there was any justice, we wouldn't see that crap party again for decades. They have taken a shit on centuries-old parliamentary process by gambling the country's future to resolve an internal squabble, and they didn't even have the decency to organise it properly. Both campaigns based on tissues of lies, no thought on what happened if leave won, no "super" majority requirement, meaning a result that falls well within a margin of error, at least one MP who only supported one side in an attempt to engineer a leadership challenge, and a negotiation from a feeble Prime Minister resulting in an absolutely terrible, un-backable deal.

What an utterly disgraceful, shambolic government.

Shambolic ruling only matched by the opposition - a party also at odds on Europe internally, with a pro-Brexit leader who's pretending not to be for the time being. If we get rid of our current crap party for decades you'll see just how far Britain can fall.

 

[Triggaaar]

PS there won't be a second referendum anyhow. Neither party's leadership wants one.

We don't know what Labour want, they won't say.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Look forward to Labour's working plan after May's 'reckless' one that got voted out.

 

[DFL JCL]

We don't know what Labour want, they won't say.

I thought they had been quite clear. They want a general election (hence the vote of no confidence). Failing that, the 2nd referendum is still on the table.

 

[Hamilton]

Indeed.

I’m not sure why it is so difficult for people to grasp that Corbyn will keep the 2nd Referendum firmly off the table until the vote of no confidence has failed?

As was agreed at their party conference, the 2nd Referendum will be considered once a general election is ruled out.

I hope you are right, but once a vote of no confidence is lost by Labour, then only the Tories can take us into a second referendum. As they'll be led by May, I can't see that happening.

Perhaps she'll do a U-turn today and say that if you vote for me then I'll take my deal, no deal and remain to the country.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Has anyone agreed what would happen if a second referendum produced the same scores on the doors? EU playing hardball and all that?


Someone would be praying a remain win, just for an easy way out.

Seems the second vote gang are banking on a win.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

None of them can be trusted to deliver what we voted for. It's a disgrace, and everyone is now bored to hell with it.

 

[DFL JCL]

I hope you are right, but once a vote of no confidence is lost by Labour, then only the Tories can take us into a second referendum. As they'll be led by May, I can't see that happening.

Perhaps she'll do a U-turn today and say that if you vote for me then I'll take my deal, no deal and remain to the country.

If she is (like parliament seemingly are) dead set against no deal. And a compromise can't be agreed with both parliament/the EU. I fail to see what other options she will have other than a second referendum or quittng.