[Football] To all the Southgate haters / wrong again and again and again **SOUTHGATE NOW RESIGNED**

[GrizzlingGammon]

The one thing this Southgate squad does seem to have going for it is the absence of dressing room ego ie the absence of ****s

Wasn't that one the reported England dressing room issues of the golden generation; divisions between players of Man Utd, Liverpool etc.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I am certainly not a Southgate fanboy far from it but IMO he has to be regarded as the England manager who has achieved most -and by that I mean has delivered more over a longer period. A WC semi-final and two euro finals is more than anyone has done. How he has done it is questionable but winning at football is as much down to luck as skill and whilst his tactical skills are questionable he must have a lot of rabbits feet in his house.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Which is the whole irony in that this average squad is excelling collectively and the golden generation was mostly up their own individual arses.

Do you think it’s average in comparison, or just that the golden generation have finished their careers so we can assess them as a whole, whereas we can’t yet work out where to place these guys individually because many of them are so young?

 

[drew]

or WDDWWW

So, you're a stats man, me, I prefer the aesthetics of a game, especially at international level.

 

[Triggaaar]

Which is the whole irony in that this average squad is excelling collectively and the golden generation was mostly up their own individual arses.

You think that individually, what you're calling our golden generation, was better than the individuals we have now? I disagree. I think we have better players now.

 

[Triggaaar]

Look at Southgates last 6.
Slovenia crap
Denmark crap
Serbia crap
Slovakia crap
Switzerland crap
Netherlands Acceptable.

I'd upgrade our performance against Switzerland to decent. They're no mugs, they never have been. They knocked out France 3 years ago, they drew with Germany this year, and they played Italy off the park.
And I'd upgrade our performance against Netherlands to good. We played well.

 

[drew]

I didn't say Southgate is better, I said TV wasn't exactly the messiah. History has been somewhat rewritten regarding Euro 96 with all this 'it made the summer' etc, it really didn't. Our campaign really took off when we beat Holland on 18/6/96 and by 26/6 we were out in the semis, so just over a week before we suffered the usual disapointment of of an exit on penalties.

Might be how you remember it but not me. The whole aura around the tournament from the fact it was at home to the Skinner and Baddiel song created a great positive vibe. It was a turning point for football in this country. 70s and 80s were the decades where violence was associated with all fans. England failed to qualify in 74 and 78, went out in 82 whilst relying on an injured Keegan. 86 Robson got lucky with Bryan Robson's injury and Wilkins throwing the ball at the ref forcing changes but we did only lose to the winners. 1990 started to see a change and obviously we again went out to the tournament winners.

1996 saw being a football fan becoming acceptable to society.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm in that picture!

You're the naked one, bottom left aren't you

 

[Triggaaar]

1996 saw being a football fan becoming acceptable to society.

That's an interesting thought. I can't say I felt marginalised in the late 80s and early 90s though (even if some out of touch old people held the view you describe).

 

[Bodian]

Racist team selections? Who wasn’t selected? Ince was, Sol Campbell, Les Ferdinand? Can’t think of any obvious omissions.

He didn't pick anyone who wasn't English. Clear racism!

 

[GJN1]

I didn't say Southgate is better, I said TV wasn't exactly the messiah. History has been somewhat rewritten regarding Euro 96 with all this 'it made the summer' etc, it really didn't. Our campaign really took off when we beat Holland on 18/6/96 and by 26/6 we were out in the semis, so just over a week before we suffered the usual disapointment of of an exit on penalties.

Spot on. I went to every England game. We weren’t all that.

 

[GJN1]

How many on here would have Southgate as the Albion Manager?

This is key. If he’s such a good manager tell me which top teams would take him?

 

[Triggaaar]

How many on here would have Southgate as the Albion Manager?

I can think of a few. Loz, Dougie, eagledan

 

[drew]

That's an interesting thought. I can't say I felt marginalised in the late 80s and early 90s though (even if some out of touch old people held the view you describe).

Really? Throughout the 70s and 80s you couldn't go to a match without there being a ruck on the terraces. On the international side of things, England fans had a very poor reputation abroad.

It reflected on the rest of us. In those decades, I probably wouldn't dream of travelling the length of the country and going to a pub wearing my Brighton shirt but now it's done pretty much without any fear of reprisals.

Fair enough if you didn't feel marginalized but getting fenced in at football grounds, being route marched from stations to grounds etc didn't seem like the rest of society appreciated us that much!!! Certainly the rest of Europe didn't for 5 years!

 

[Easy 10]

Or Southgate's had 8 years to figure out players and tactics and we're still "experimenting" in the group games and changing formation

Well, there's always a hell of a lot of churn in squad personnel over 8 years, and sometimes you're not left with the players you want or need to lay down a template to go it with for every game, or every tournament.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter who's in charge. Everyone in the country is an England manager, and always knows best. Nothing is ever good enough, or ever will be. You go into that job to get slagged off, thats just how it is.

Personally I'm just someone who is enjoying seeing England regularly going deep in major tournaments these days. We rarely look like worldbeaters, but we have been resilient, and bloody hard to beat. And thats been taking us a long way of late. There is a real unity there that Southgate has forged - which is something more "gilded" managers have been unable to bring about.

If we lose on Sunday against Spain, then of course the roof will cave in, as we're once again lumped together with the other 23 nations who rocked up in Germany and "failed" to win the whole shebang. Southgate will be disembowelled at the Tower of London, his head put on a pike, his four limbs sent to the corners of the nation. Everyone can have their "told-you-he-was-shit" pound of flesh.

And then we can all sit back and look forward to...Eddie Howe.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well, there's always a hell of a lot of churn in squad personnel over 8 years, and sometimes you're not left with the players you want or need to lay down a template to go it with for every game, or every tournament.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter who's in charge. Everyone in the country is an England manager, and always knows best. Nothing is ever good enough, or ever will be. You go into that job to get slagged off, thats just how it is.

Personally I'm just someone who is enjoying seeing England regularly going deep in major tournaments these days. We rarely look like worldbeaters, but we have been resilient, and bloody hard to beat. And thats been taking us a long way of late. There is a real unity there that Southgate has forged - which is something more "gilded" managers have been unable to bring about.

If we lose on Sunday against Spain, then of course the roof will cave in, as we're once again lumped together with the other 23 nations who rocked up in Germany and "failed" to win the whole shebang. Southgate will be disembowelled at the Tower of London, his head put on a pike, his four limbs sent to the corners of the nation. Everyone can have their "told-you-he-was-shit" pound of flesh.

And then we can all sit back and look forward to...Eddie Howe.

I think it will come down to the nature of the defeat if that’s the result.

Southgate’s big defeats against. Croatia, Italy and France have very much felt like opportunities missed. Tactical conservatism, not going for it when on top. Sitting on leads, or looking fantastic only when behind.

Spain are perhaps the best of that bunch. Defeat is definitely on the cards, but I think he can come back with congratulations in defeat as long as we’ve given everything in the game, nothing was held back.

I dare say we go 1 up, we sit back then lose it 2-1, he will get a lot of stick. Create loads of chances, take the game to them, but lose an enthralling close contest, think he’ll be fine.

 

[Lenny Rider]

How many on here would have Southgate as the Albion Manager?

I think this is also part of the argument, I don’t think Southgate, win or lose tomorrow night, will go anywhere near the EPL.

No one in the top 7 would touch him regardless of all the Sir Jim Ratcliffe rumours at Utd, and as for the remaining 13 clubs I still believe he would struggle in the high pressure 38 game league season, and dare I say it if he went to a lesser team he might quickly get embroiled in a relegation fight that would certainly blight the old CV.

As for the Albion, I’d be as underwhelmed as when Sami Hypia was unveiled, and we all know how that ended

 

[Justice]

O

I think this is also part of the argument, I don’t think Southgate, win or lose tomorrow night, will go anywhere near the EPL.

No one in the top 7 would touch him regardless of all the Sir Jim Ratcliffe rumours at Utd, and as for the remaining 13 clubs I still believe he would struggle in the high pressure 38 game league season, and dare I say it if he went to a lesser team he might quickly get embroiled in a relegation fight that would certainly blight the old CV.

As for the Albion, I’d be as underwhelmed as when Sami Hypia was unveiled, and we all know how that ended

Bloom wouldn’t even consider Southgate as it be a complete change of footballing styles.
Thank god

 

[Triggaaar]

Really? Throughout the 70s and 80s you couldn't go to a match without there being a ruck on the terraces.

I didn't start going until 87, and it wasn't particularly bad at the Goldstone.

On the international side of things, England fans had a very poor reputation abroad.

I've never watched us abroad, just talking about being a football fan here.

It reflected on the rest of us. In those decades, I probably wouldn't dream of travelling the length of the country and going to a pub wearing my Brighton shirt but now it's done pretty much without any fear of reprisals.

That's true, although I'd still be cautious about wearing colours in enemy territory on a match day.

Fair enough if you didn't feel marginalized but getting fenced in at football grounds, being route marched from stations to grounds etc didn't seem like the rest of society appreciated us that much!!!

Yeah that happened all the time. I just felt it was the government and police against us. I still think they are with the fact we can't drink at our seats, like all other sports fans can.

 

[rogersix]

I am certainly not a Southgate fanboy far from it but IMO he has to be regarded as the England manager who has achieved most -and by that I mean has delivered more over a longer period. A WC semi-final and two euro finals is more than anyone has done. How he has done it is questionable but winning at football is as much down to luck as skill and whilst his tactical skills are questionable he must have a lot of rabbits feet in his house.

he must live in a warren