[TV] Till Death Us Do Part.

[Cowfold Seagull]

I'm going out on a limb here . . .

Over the last few weeks l've caught a few episodes of the infamous Alf Garnett saga from the 1960's and 70's. Admittedly riddled with all kinds of racist and sexist jokes, and very much of it's time, l do have to admit to finding some scenes from the sitcom very funny indeed.

The actors were perfectly cast in their roles, Warren Mitchell was superb as Alf, and the almost forgotten Dandy Nichols a great foil as the much maligned silly moo, Else. Una Stubbs playing their daughter Rita, and Anthony Booth, the scouse git, making up the regular cast.

Much derided now for obvious reasons, but l think the show still had a lot of merit, what do you lot think?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Unwatchable now. The Garnett character seems through modern eyes to be on the autism spectrum. He reminds me far too much of my (cockney) dad on one of his extended rants about the modern world in the late 60s and 70s. And the rest of the cast mocked him just as, sadly we mocked the old man.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think @Lenny Rider has been hacked

 

[A1X]

So in the last few days we’ve now had the following threads (essentially);

- GB News, what wonderfully balanced reporting
- Lenny Henry is shite and we know there’s only one reason why he got famous
- “Til Death Us Do Part” was actually alright?

Eugh.

 

[dazzer6666]

Unwatchable now. The Garnett character seems through modern eyes to be on the autism spectrum. He reminds me far too much of my (cockney) dad on one of his extended rants about the modern world in the late 60s and 70s. And the rest of the cast mocked him just as, sadly we mocked the old man.

Alf was actually based on Speight’s father (a racist East End docker).

 

[Eeyore]

So in the last few days we’ve now had the following threads (essentially);

- GB News, what wonderfully balanced reporting
- Lenny Henry is shite and we know there’s only one reason why he got famous
- “Til Death Us Do Part” was actually alright?

Eugh.

I think GB News is a right wing fart factory and Lenny Henry was actually rather funny at times.

'Till death do us part' ? I loved it, and still do.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

But isn't it a bit like Blazing Saddles, a deliberate parody of racism where the most racist character is exposed, held up to ridicule and finally demolished. Alf Garnett always got his comeuppance and ended up as the frustrated and sad loser. And it was very funny

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But isn't it a bit like Blazing Saddles, a deliberate parody of racism where the most racist character is exposed, held up to ridicule and finally demolished. Alf Garnett always got his comeuppance and ended up as the frustrated and sad loser. And it was very funny

Exactly this. Speight was trying to expose the racism which was so prevalent.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Exactly this. Speight was trying to expose the racism which was so prevalent.

As was Love Thy Neighbour, Eddie Booth was always made to look stupid at the end of every episode.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As was Love Thy Neighbour, Eddie Booth was always made to look stupid at the end of every episode.

It was of its time. It wouldn’t work now.

 

[Yes Chef]

Satire innit

 

[HangletonGull]

Recently watched in sickness and in health and im no violet but it was unwatchable

 

[Jackthelad]

I felt for Warren Mitchell he was a good actor but as he played the the racist part so well he was often abused in the street. The dynamic between Alf the national front bigot and Mike the left wing socialist was brilliant. I think some of their political discussions are still relevant today.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So in the last few days we’ve now had the following threads (essentially);

- GB News, what wonderfully balanced reporting
- Lenny Henry is shite and we know there’s only one reason why he got famous
- “Til Death Us Do Part” was actually alright?

Eugh.

It's the fightback from Right Thinking Man, in the face of the defenestration of Johnson (he and his chums will be thrown through another window today - ho ho ho) and the general collapse of the cult of greed and incompetence that has run riot over the last 13 years.

So far, going really well.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I felt for Warren Mitchell he was a good actor but as he played the the racist part so well he was often abused in the street. The dynamic between Alf the national front bigot and Mike the left wing socialist was brilliant. I think some of their political discussions are still relevant today.

Agree - and Warren Mitchell himself was himself a genuine left wing socialist and anti-racist.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Agree - and Warren Mitchell himself was himself a genuine left wing socialist and anti-racist.

He was indeed.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think @Lenny Rider has been hacked

You beat me to it!

 

[Official Old Man]

Try watching this episode. Easter Special from 1967 it includes Kenny Lynch, Jimmy Tarbuck & Ray Barrett. Three huge stars at the time. I'm sure the alcohol, which flowed well, was real.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Agree - and Warren Mitchell himself was himself a genuine left wing socialist and anti-racist.

And Jewish.

My exasperation with the thread may seem unfair but it just seems a bit weird to create a new thread on something like this. I would feel weird if I started a thread on, for example, the social impact of the music of "Crass", or (heaven forefend) the possible virtues of Arthur Scargill (I don't consider he has any, by the way, but I'm sure I could squeeze something out if I put my mind to it - 'always ready to stand up for what he stood for', to miss-quote Peter Cook, might be a good place to start).

Mitchell appeared in an episode of The Avengers in the 60s.

Now, that was a programme that still resonates. Apart from the one on the UFO, which they repeatedly explained means 'UnidentiFied Object'

 

[Stato]

Lenny Henry has actually spoken about the unintended consequences of Johnny Speight's good intentions:

"Even Till Death Us Do Part. Johnny Speight created the racist, right wing, monster Alf Garnett, brilliantly portrayed by Warren Mitchell. You might say that Speight was being brutally honest about how racist white people spoke about ethnic minorities, but it didn’t stop Alf being adopted as a hero by the very people he was satirizing.

Speight tried to ensure that in each story line, Alf came off the worst. But when I went to school the next morning, it was always me who came off worst."

Now racists don't need TV, or these days social media to be racist, but the mediums do ease the exchange of terminology and provide convenient and easily communicated pegs for racism to be hung on.

Johnny Speight's voice was Rita and Mike's voice. He was displaying the stupidity of divisive right wing politics being espoused by the working classes, but the character he and Warren Mitchell created became too big and too dominant. People forget that Dandy Nicholls' Else often had the best lines, because Alf had the most lines. A lot of his lines were written to show the failure of his internal logic and the satire was great if you recognised it as satire. However, he became the sitcom monster: The character who took over the show, became an archetype and found a life outside of the sitcom world. The character became too big for Speight, or the even more left wing, Mitchell to control and, in losing context, he ended up losing meaning.

I wouldn't argue that the OP is going out on a limb by suggesting that the show was funny. It was, and is, very funny and its intent was always anti-racist. However, it's methods are perhaps too subtle for these times. I remember an alternative comedian, (probably Stewart Lee, it usually is) saying that the irony used in nineties comedy to deal with race, sexuality etc. was possible because we all thought, perhaps a bit smugly, that everbody had agreed that discrimination was wrong. We've found out since that this hadn't been agreed, just that those who didn't agree had gone quiet for a bit. Now that they are far from quiet, playing with offence in a knowing way becomes easily stripped of all context and can be grist to their mill. Alf's rants were meant to be so stupid and so extreme that you laughed at their ridiculousness and self harm. Unfortunately, the satire has been overtaken by the idiocy of the world and showing it to mass audiences today may leave a few wondering why he was laughed at and not elected.