[News] Tier Two for most of England

[portlock seagull]

There aren’t rules to follow. Everything’s open. Some blurred nonsense about households and rules of six. What we do makes no difference.
The only thing that would make a difference is a full lockdown. Not this face-saving, random jabbing, joke of a plan.
It’s ****ed.

Yes there are. No it isn’t. Read rather than rant. Of course it does. It would be greater but they’re balancing with other factors. Depends if the stupid out number the smart.

 

[The Clamp]

Yes there are. No it isn’t. Read rather than rant. Of course it does. It would be greater but they’re balancing with other factors. Depends if the stupid out number the smart.

Well, I hope you’re right. Because none of its working so far. Half measures never do. Johnson is too much of a liberal to lock us all down properly.

 

[Yoda]

But presumably other parts of West Sussex are higher? They've done it by Council area (Brighton & Hove are a unitary authority so have their own Tier). I live in a part of Kent which is low but we've but put in Tier 3 because Swale & Thanet are the 2nd & 3rd highest in the country.

But could also be argued come next week at the rate it is falling for the county as a whole will be under 100 in 100,000 cases. To announce which tiers everywhere will be a week before "lockdown" ends, only as we're starting to see the results of said "lockdown" and for it not to be reviewed for another three weeks after that, is jumping the gun.

 

[Yoda]

Exactly - if you zoom into the detail further you can see how wide the range is across small areas, eg. Steyning has a rate higher above the average than Liverpool according to this data. So it seems they have taken the option of averaging out across the wider county to judge the tiers.

Same goes for Haywards Heath, Hailsham etc.

View attachment 130808

Yet a rate of 266.9 for only 23 cases just goes to show how skewed a sparsely populated area can look.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Me too.

Also, what I’d add is the failure to identify a priority and build a strategy to deliver on it.

If the priority is health, why have we had 55,000 deaths, more than any other European country?

If the priority is the economy, why are we on track for an 11.3% contraction this year, also worse than almost every other country out there?

The reality of Government is that it is a balancing act, a compromise. It has to be. They have an impossible task when the actions needed to protect health and the economy are so conflicting as is the case now. If there is to be more mixing at Christmas then it does actually make sense to tighten the tier restrictions in the run up.

 

[blue-shifted]

The reality of Government is that it is a balancing act, a compromise. It has to be. They have an impossible task when the actions needed to protect health and the economy are so conflicting as is the case now. If there is to be more mixing at Christmas then it does actually make sense to tighten the tier restrictions in the run up.

It is a balancing act yes, I mean they've cocked up both, but at least they recognise that there has to be a balance

 

[Notters]

I'm no lover of this government, but if they want to allow household mixing at xmas, which I disagree with, then they've got to have harsher restrictions for the rest of the winter. 600 per day are dying. They have to act.

Personally I'm surprised at how much of an effect this lockdown is having at slowing the transmission of the virus. I thought that schools being open, combined with the colder weather, combined with the fatigue, mistrust and cynicism towards this government and it's messages would mean that this lockdown would have little effect. Lockdowns do work and the majority do follow the rules. We know vaccines are on the way, so I support harsh but regionalised lockdowns until such time as we are all vaccinated.

You may be right, but I don't think we have any idea at all how much of an effect this lockdown is having. And that's despite there being a HUGE lag. Firstly the numbers were already on the decline when it started (as in March), secondly these peaks appear fairly typical of other epidemics in the past, which came and went without any lockdowns.

I could be wrong of course.

Furlough isn’t the be all and end all.

They are still having to pay NI and Tax

Plus any other over heads

They are still losing money every day they are shut.

And perhaps most importantly it's by far their busiest time of the year.

 

[The Clamp]

The reality of Government is that it is a balancing act, a compromise. It has to be. They have an impossible task when the actions needed to protect health and the economy are so conflicting as is the case now. If there is to be more mixing at Christmas then it does actually make sense to tighten the tier restrictions in the run up.

It’s categorically not impossible. Other countries have proved that.

 

[zefarelly]

Furlough isn’t the be all and end all.

They are still having to pay NI and Tax

Plus any other over heads

They are still losing money every day they are shut.

Exactly, My local is privately owned and run. continued closure could kill it, furlough won't save a business.

 

[zefarelly]

Depends if the stupid out number the smart.

we know the answer to that!

 

[zefarelly]

Yet a rate of 266.9 for only 23 cases just goes to show how skewed a sparsely populated area can look.

The biggest skew in Steyning is a very large school in a ver small town. 6000 people 2200 in school!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It’s categorically not impossible. Other countries have proved that.

I’m not saying you are wrong but do these successful other countries have similar population densities, infrastructure, commuter levels, socio economic make up, bloody mindedness levels (as in refusal to obey rules) etc etc. You are going to have to justify such comparisons in a little more detail if they are going to stand up. By the way I am not defending the Government. Transferring untested patients from hospitals to care homes was disgraceful. Muddled and , as you say, overly liberal thinking from Boris has been a weakness for months. Now at last though people are being told to face the fact that the virus hasn’t gone away and we are all going to have to follow a set of rules we don’t like until we are all vaccinated.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

View attachment 130813

But could also be argued come next week at the rate it is falling for the county as a whole will be under 100 in 100,000 cases. To announce which tiers everywhere will be a week before "lockdown" ends, only as we're starting to see the results of said "lockdown" and for it not to be reviewed for another three weeks after that, is jumping the gun.

Difficult to see the future is

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Exactly, My local is privately owned and run. continued closure could kill it, furlough won't save a business.

They interviewed a couple of owners on sky

One owns a few restaurants in Newcastle, he’s had to put a million in to keep them afloat.

The other owns thirty bars in Liverpool, Four can open.

 

[portlock seagull]

I’m not saying you are wrong but do these successful other countries have similar population densities, infrastructure, commuter levels, socio economic make up, bloody mindedness levels (as in refusal to obey rules) etc etc. You are going to have to justify such comparisons in a little more detail if they are going to stand up. By the way I am not defending the Government. Transferring untested patients from hospitals to care homes was disgraceful. Muddled and , as you say, overly liberal thinking from Boris has been a weakness for months. Now at last though people are being told to face the fact that the virus hasn’t gone away and we are all going to have to follow a set of rules we don’t like until we are all vaccinated.

Though I think it’s really impossible to compare countries accurately, it’s undeniable that our freedom loving liberal society (which the government simply reflects) has an enormous baring on the overall death count. It was always thus, personally I’d have happily gone down the martial rule emergency powers wartime route from the beginning. But boy was that roundly booed on here, and so people must die. The price of democracy amongst others.

 

[Fungus]

So, there are three regions in Tier 1, and two of them are Cornwall? The Isles of Scilly have just over 2000 inhabitants, so can't really be counted separately - Old Shoreham Road probably has more than that.

Edit: cases in Cornwall actually increased during the latest lockdown.

 

[beorhthelm]

Furlough covers up to 70% of wages / £2000 or whatever it is. Plus the employer still has to pay PAYE & NI.

Who do you think is covering business rates, rents, leases on equipment etc?

fair point. so do you believe we should all stay in lockdown so everyone has those same outcomes? thats what i was commenting on, the views that tiers arent fair, not the difficulties businesses are facing.

 

[Albion Dan]

Tier 2 in Brighton, Hove, Adur, Worthing even though rate is lower than it was when in Tier 1 before latest lockdown. This will ruin more hospitality and events businesses. You really couldn't make it up now

To me this just smacks of normalising a world where we get used to a loss of freedom for the long term. Already chat about masks being in play through all of 2021. WTF if we have a vaccine that works? Laying the ground for imposed restrictions in the name of climate change to follow (load of hints from global leaders this will happen) and the ushering in of a new society model that we will all be controlled by for the long term. At what point are we going to say enough is enough?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Exactly, My local is privately owned and run. continued closure could kill it, furlough won't save a business.

Which pub? I’m being nosey

 

[LamieRobertson]

For those interested...from gov website

.
East and West Sussex, and Brighton and Hove High (tier 2) Case rates in Sussex are at 120 per 100,000 with a total positivity of 4.5%. However, the trend is increasing in several areas. NHS admissions have been fairly stable in the last month but there is increasing occupancy in units treating more serious cases.