Thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians spotted at the borders

[BadFish]

When were you last in England and actually loved around these immigrants?

Living (or loving) in amongst something often gives you a distorted view of what is going on as a whole. What you think is going on and what intuitively seems accurate is often the opposite of what is going on as a whole.

This is why we have experts who study the data and investigate what is going on in a scientific and logical way using sound and tried and tested methods to find out what is actially going on instead of relying on the one eyes prejudices of some bloke who frequents an internet forum.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

A massive generalisation which has been proven inaccurate by a couple of sound studies already posted.

The UKs population growth is unsustainable. We are constantly told we need to concrete over vast swathes of the Country, particularly the South East.

Hospitals are over stretched, teachers are expected to be able to teach large classes where the kids can't speak English, transport, both road and rail is a disaster.

Yes, controlled immigration can be a good thing, but at its current rate it's out of control, and that's a bad thing.

 

[Soulman]

The UKs population growth is unsustainable. We are constantly told we need to concrete over vast swathes of the Country, particularly the South East.

Hospitals are over stretched, teachers are expected to be able to teach large classes where the kids can't speak English, transport, both road and rail is a disaster.

Yes, controlled immigration can be a good thing, but at its current rate it's out of control, and that's a bad thing.

You are correct.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Living (or loving) in amongst something often gives you a distorted view of what is going on as a whole. What you think is going on and what intuitively seems accurate is often the opposite of what is going on as a whole.

This is why we have experts who study the data and investigate what is going on in a scientific and logical way using sound and tried and tested methods to find out what is actially going on instead of relying on the one eyes prejudices of some bloke who frequents an internet forum.

Answer his question.

How can you pass comment on UK immigration policy from Australia. A couple of visits a year, reading the papers online?

Sorry, but from where you're sitting, your opinion counts for jack shit.

 

[BadFish]

Answer his question.

How can you pass comment on UK immigration policy from Australia. A couple of visits a year, reading the papers online?

Sorry, but from where you're sitting, your opinion counts for jack shit.

All opinions about immigration on a Brighton football forum count for jack shit doesn't make them wrong.

 

[Soulman]

Answer his question.

How can you pass comment on UK immigration policy from Australia. A couple of visits a year, reading the papers online?

Sorry, but from where you're sitting, your opinion counts for jack shit.

I think you will also find that when the tabloids were trumpeting immigration under Labour, how good it was etc etc.......only for a few years later for Labour to admit they got it horribly wrong. England is a small island, and is the most densely populated country in Europe, fact.
Maybe some of these countries that are much much bigger with a smaller population, would benefit from mass immigration.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree with some of what you say and it's certainly the case (as Peter Wilby's article about the Atlee era in your link perhaps unwittingly make clear) that xenophobia, fear of people who are "different" and hostility to immigrants, have never been the sole prerogative of the right.
In my view, whether or not membership of the EU in its current and likely future incarnation, is beneficial or detrimental to the British working class (in its original sense, a rather smaller population segment than in Atlee's time) is an empirical question, rather than one of ideology or politics. I used to think, in those days when the EEC -- as you rightly name it -- was a purely economic entity, that being part of it would on balance be detrimental to the British working class, and operate mainly in favour of rentiers and business owners, a capitalist club with few safeguards for the interests of the workers. That was why I voted against the UK joining in the referendum of 1975.
Since then, however, with the development of a wider concept of 'social Europe' through the EU, it seems to me (again, on balance, as an empirical matter) that the pendulum has swung somewhat in the other direction: the various regulations and directives (from health and safety at work, pensions, equality, workers' representation, working time, protection of agency workers etc) coming out of the EU have been an important brake on the inexorable shift towards deregulation and erosion of workers' rights, introduced under the Tory goverments of the 80s and 90s, and extended under New Labour (indeed that's why British governments have been so keen on securing 'opt-outs' where they can). So on balance, I now think that continued membership of the EU, with all that comes with it, including free movement of labour, is now a positive for the British working class. As I've mentioned in other posts, as far as I can see, the bulk of reputable economic evidence suggests that there has not been a negative fiscal or economic impact of EU migration, and neither has it had a negative impact on UK employment or unemployment (if anything the evidence is slightly in the other direction with positive impacts of migrants contributing more to taxes than they take from benefits, and the injection of a young, often skilled labour force adding to GDP and GDP per capita, with positive multiplier effects on the existing population).

Finally, and this is where I get onto ideology (and I suspect you will have a very different view), if one is concerned about the working class and economic and social disadvantage (and, to some extent, I am), I see no reason to give particular priority to the "British working class". I'd take a rather more internationalist perspective, and give some weight to the interests of working classes from other places and other countries. While, like most people, I do have some concern about the interests of people I know and care about (my friends and relatives in particular) and want to look after them, when it comes to people I don't know, I see no particular reason to give priority to Brits over Bulgarians, any more than I see a particular reason to give priority to people from England over people from Scotland, or to people from Brighton over people from Newcastle, or to people from Hove over people from Whitehawk -- I just have no reason to give one group a priority over the others and so I don't.

Well put and I agree with all of this.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

All opinions about immigration on a Brighton football forum count for jack shit doesn't make them wrong.

But your opinion is wrong. You just don't know it because you don't live here.

And you still haven't answered his question.

 

[BadFish]

But your opinion is wrong. You just don't know it because you don't live here.

And you still haven't answered his question.

Which particular opinion of mine do you think is wrong?

 

[jgmcdee]

That misses the critical point, but have it your way, if the lords in the houses of lords (or another executive body) were chosen by MPs then you would be entirely comfortable that they could impose laws on the British electorate without the law needing to go through the democratically elected Houses of Parliament?

But although the reality is that the EU commission can do things by itself most things, and certainly pretty much everything that anyone talks about, goes through both Council and Parliament prior to becoming law.

You may as well ask if I'm comfortable with the fact that the House of Lords, which contains a large number of members who have not even been put forward by any parliament in living memory, can block legislation being put through by my democratically elected representatives. There have been over 70 instances since the coalition came to power and so could be considered a much more real and prominent threat to democracy.

 

[EDS]

Living (or loving) in amongst something often gives you a distorted view of what is going on as a whole. What you think is going on and what intuitively seems accurate is often the opposite of what is going on as a whole.

This is why we have experts who study the data and investigate what is going on in a scientific and logical way using sound and tried and tested methods to find out what is actially going on instead of relying on the one eyes prejudices of some bloke who frequents an internet forum.

You really do talk a load of flannel. Almost of moronic proportions.

I would say I am one of the least prejudiced people you can meet but I can be swayed by what I see. Anyway I do not want to get into some debate with you that just goes on and on, I know what I know and I will vote for the first person who promises to seriously cut immigration.

 

[BadFish]

You really do talk a load of flannel. Almost of moronic proportions.

I would say I am one of the least prejudiced people you can meet but I can be swayed by what I see. Anyway I do not want to get into some debate with you that just goes on and on, I know what I know and I will vote for the first person who promises to seriously cut immigration.

Fair play to you. but will you answer just one question for me as I am genuinely interested (no need for lengthy deabte just one question)

Are the 'they' which you referred to earlier all immigrants or a subsection of immigrants? If 'they' are a subsection than how do you define that subsection?

(Okay maybe two questions or at least one question with two part )

 

[banjo]

 

[EDS]

Fair play to you. but will you answer just one question for me as I am genuinely interested (no need for lengthy deabte just one question)

Are the 'they' which you referred to earlier all immigrants or a subsection of immigrants? If 'they' are a subsection than how do you define that subsection?

(Okay maybe two questions or at least one question with two part )

The "they" are the immigrants of recent times. Not the ones from years ago who wanted to come here and make a life and actually integrate.
I would give a blow by blow account of the different "types" of immigrants we have but someone will get all upset and I will get banned again

 

[Guerrero]

I work with kids every day.
I was doing a PSHE class today and we were talking about the cultural differences between Britain and Spain.
One lad who had been back to the UK (Birmingham) for Christmas,but has lived here for around eight years said that he went to the Bullring and there was hardly a white face to be seen.Except for the young girls pushing prams.All of which had off-white babies in them.
I have lived outside of the UK for more than a decade,and honestly couldn't care less what colour or sexual orientation anybody is.Wherever they live.
I am of an age where "Melting pot" by Blue Mink is squaring up to "Rivers of blood" by Enoch Powell.
Will we ever all live in Peace?

 

[BadFish]

The "they" are the immigrants of recent times. Not the ones from years ago who wanted to come here and make a life and actually integrate.
I would give a blow by blow account of the different "types" of immigrants we have but someone will get all upset and I will get banned again

So 'they' are all immigrants of recent times?

 

[cunning fergus]

But although the reality is that the EU commission can do things by itself most things, and certainly pretty much everything that anyone talks about, goes through both Council and Parliament prior to becoming law.

You may as well ask if I'm comfortable with the fact that the House of Lords, which contains a large number of members who have not even been put forward by any parliament in living memory, can block legislation being put through by my democratically elected representatives. There have been over 70 instances since the coalition came to power and so could be considered a much more real and prominent threat to democracy.

Nope, it's fine we have established that you are comfortable with the concept that laws can be imposed on the UK without the need for our democratically elected representatives to approve it.

This is a new development arising from the Lisbon Treaty, which the electorate was never asked to approve but I expect that will sit just as comfortably with you too.

You have a point about the Lords but that is a long standing historical lawmaking issue in this country. The hard reality is if you disagree with the unelected Lords interfering with legislation from the commons, then the EU Commission being able to impose law that bypasses the commons as well then this makes the prevailing situation even worse.

It certainly does not justify it.

 

[MICK PATCHAM]

I think you will also find that when the tabloids were trumpeting immigration under Labour, how good it was etc etc.......only for a few years later for Labour to admit they got it horribly wrong. England is a small island, and is the most densely populated country in Europe, fact.
Maybe some of these countries that are much much bigger with a smaller population, would benefit from mass immigration.

yep

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The most irritating aspect regarding migration is that we cannot do anything about it. At the moment our doors are open to as many people as possible from the EU, and I am not including people from outside the EU. When is this going to end? As others have mentioned we are one of the most densely populated countries in Europe now. Quality of life and space are far more important to me.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The most irritating aspect regarding migration is that we cannot do anything about it. At the moment our doors are open to as many people as possible from the EU, and I am not including people from outside the EU. When is this going to end? As others have mentioned we are one of the most densely populated countries in Europe now. Quality of life and space are far more important to me.

when we get the vote to decide in or out
regards
DR