This binman strike...

[Barrel of Fun]

Having worked within the council for a period of a year, I am astounded by the waste and attitude of the workers and their 'hours'.

From skiving up to 20 days a year (I've done the sums) to using petrol for their own good, nothing would amaze me.

The management is pathetic. It is almost impossible to get sacked.

No one is accountable for anyone.

There are lots of shits taking the piss who wouldn't survive a week in the private sector.

 

[drew]

People would complain about ailments if doctors and nurses went on strike or what-have-you.

There are many occupations that would be missed if they gave them up. It doesn't mean that one should roll over and give them what they want for the sake of it without a proper discussion.

Perhaps those profession which would not notably be missed should earn less and contribute more to those who make an obvious difference.

I thought this was about taking something they already had, not giving them what they want!

Having worked within the council for a period of a year, I am astounded by the waste and attitude of the workers and their 'hours'.

From skiving up to 20 days a year (I've done the sums) to using petrol for their own good, nothing would amaze me.

The management is pathetic. It is almost impossible to get sacked.

No one is accountable for anyone.

There are lots of shits taking the piss who wouldn't survive a week in the private sector.

Be interested to know when you worked for the council?

As for the private sector, I have only ever worked in the private sector and I have seen numerous cases of abuse of expense accounts.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Quite. Independent Financial Advisers or Mortgage Advisers, to take two examples plucked out of the ether, could go on strike indefinitely and nobody would give a shit. Ever.

Right I was not going to get involved by I take great offense to that. I have dedicated my professional career to be as good as I can at my job for over 20 years. I worked hard to get my professional qualifications. I have helped thousands of people get their homes and work 60 hours plus a week and being self employed in incredibly tough times have earned about the same as the Dustmen. My pay was cut in 2008 by over 60% and has done so for 5 years now in this recession. Many people on here have been happy with my hard work and professionalism. Why is my job of no value ? Likewise many self employed people have had massive pay cuts in the last 5 years and get on with it. Till workers at Tesco's work bloody hard and earn about £ 11000 pa gross working a 40 hour week. I think £ 22000 pa for emptying bins is a fair wage and people have left out they will get a £ 15000 lump sum, being negotiated higher, as compensation

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The state of North Street today is a disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. If they do not want the job with the terms outlined, no problem. That is their decision. Move on. Let a new wave of unemployed step in and take the job on instead. I'm sure Kitkat at the council is being unreasonable, but that is a separate matter for me. My support was lost when they went out on strike. Repeatedly.

They do though - they want the jobs with the T&Cs that have already been agreed. The council want to rip up the previous agreement.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

i gather they have started the consultation, which is still on going, but the union have called their membes out immediatly. certinly not the first time a union takes this approach to "negotiations", and their (and members) own worst enemy often.

The council entered the consultation with the statement "This is our best and final offer" - hardly a consultation !

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think that the dustmen need to accept that these are difficult economic times and we all have to cut our cloth accordingly. City bonuses have been slashed, senior executive pay rounds are showing huge reductions, politicians are cutting their expenses. We are all in this together and i think the dustmen could show a little more flexibility.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

They do though - they want the jobs with the T&Cs that have already been agreed. The council want to rip up the previous agreement.

I bet they do. They've been overpaid for years! And if they're honest, they're perfectly aware of that as well. They've had an easy ride, and now it's over. If the job is no longer suitable for them, then they'll need to find some other employment. It's a tough world.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's a tough world.

Judging from your posts on here, it will be for someone as naive as you

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I bet they do. They've been overpaid for years! And if they're honest, they're perfectly aware of that as well. They've had an easy ride, and now it's over. If the job is no longer suitable for them, then they'll need to find some other employment. It's a tough world.

Given the number of people who complained over the last 4 weeks or so while the binmen worked the hours they are paid for by their basic pay and the amount of people complaining what the city looks like after only two days of a strike, one would suggest they are required to do those extra hours. It seems reasonable to pay them a decent amount for these extra hours.

I don't consider £22k including allowances being over paid for the awful job they have to do AND that they do well.

Now flipping burgers really IS overpaid.

EDIT - I wonder what you would do if your employer cut the money you take home by around 20% ?

 

[mistahclarke]

if any thread was going to turn into a binfest, it had to be this one.

 

[northstandsteve]

Having worked within the council for a period of a year, I am astounded by the waste and attitude of the workers and their 'hours'.

From skiving up to 20 days a year (I've done the sums) to using petrol for their own good, nothing would amaze me.

The management is pathetic. It is almost impossible to get sacked.

No one is accountable for anyone.

There are lots of shits taking the piss who wouldn't survive a week in the private sector.

My sentiments exactly and ive been there 5 years nearly.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

It's a shame these greedy binsters aren't able to kick a football around on a pitch half-decently tbh. Presumably some of the gobshites on here would then suddenly appreciate the stirling work these thicko's do for our society; & how they provide an adoring public with superb value for money for a week of real hard graft.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Given the number of people who complained over the last 4 weeks or so while the binmen worked the hours they are paid for by their basic pay and the amount of people complaining what the city looks like after only two days of a strike, one would suggest they are required to do those extra hours. It seems reasonable to pay them a decent amount for these extra hours.

I don't consider £22k including allowances being over paid for the awful job they have to do AND that they do well.

Now flipping burgers really IS overpaid.

EDIT - I wonder what you would do if your employer cut the money you take home by around 20% ?

What would I do? I'd strike. Obviously. Because that would work, and it would get support. And then my bosses would really be regretting not wanting to lose money hand over fist paying over the odds.

Or, not being job shy, I'd go down the pub and have a bitch and a moan about it, and then get back on it. I'd rather lose 20% than 100% - which is surely where this is going to end.

 

[mistahclarke]

What would I do? I'd strike. Obviously. Because that would work, and it would get support. And then my bosses would really be regretting not wanting to lose money hand over fist paying over the odds.

Or, not being job shy, I'd go down the pub and have a bitch and a moan about it, and then get back on it. I'd rather lose 20% than 100% - which is surely where this is going to end.

your overtime rates are the same as what is being suggested for these binmen and you can't go on strike or you'll get fired. You've actually got it worse than these people striking as it happens. But don't think you have any support from NSC on that one as when you don't do you work rubbish doesn't pile up.

 

[Biscuit]

Whatever the ins and outs it needs sorting out. I took my girlfriend to Brighton yesterday and was embarrassed by the state of it - rubbish was whizzing around like a cyclone on Bond Street.

 

[drew]

Right I was not going to get involved by I take great offense to that. I have dedicated my professional career to be as good as I can at my job for over 20 years. I worked hard to get my professional qualifications. I have helped thousands of people get their homes and work 60 hours plus a week and being self employed in incredibly tough times have earned about the same as the Dustmen. My pay was cut in 2008 by over 60% and has done so for 5 years now in this recession. Many people on here have been happy with my hard work and professionalism. Why is my job of no value ? Likewise many self employed people have had massive pay cuts in the last 5 years and get on with it. Till workers at Tesco's work bloody hard and earn about £ 11000 pa gross working a 40 hour week. I think £ 22000 pa for emptying bins is a fair wage and people have left out they will get a £ 15000 lump sum, being negotiated higher, as compensation

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't £22k inclusive of overtime so they are being asked to take a pay cut. You opted to do what you do and may well have had it tough over the last few years but you don't indicate how well you did before that! You say you had a 60% reduction down to about what the bin men earn, so presumably you were on about £55/60k before that!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Or, not being job shy, I'd go down the pub and have a bitch and a moan about it, and then get back on it. I'd rather lose 20% than 100% - which is surely where this is going to end.

There is NO threat of redundancies - the whole issue is about "equal" pay and when we say "equal" it means making teaching assistants wages = binmen wages = care assistance wages and so on. Only a moron would really think those jobs are all equal pay wise but then we have morons running public services.

The binmen are worth EVERY penny - I'd not notice if a burger flipper went on strike !

 

[Ninja Elephant]

your overtime rates are the same as what is being suggested for these binmen and you can't go on strike or you'll get fired. You've actually got it worse than these people striking as it happens. But don't think you have any support from NSC on that one as when you don't do you work rubbish doesn't pile up.

I could argue that that is EXACTLY what happens when I don't do anything! It is just unfortunate that it happens when I do work as well.

I'm all for worker rights, no question about that. But the basic pay is unchanged, and overtime is time and a half. I worked 50 hour weeks at Ladbrokes at flat rate, and I spent over a year working my way up to a basic rate of pay on a par with the binmen. I was on call, too, without getting anything extra. Or expecting anything extra. I got a 6am call one day to work in Lewes, travel paid of course, but flat rate and expected to collect and deposit shop keys in my time. A lot of people used to kick off about such things, and still do. But you have two choices in my opinion - do the work and get the pay, or tell them to stuff it. If you choose to work, you're not "doing them a favour" - you're going to work for pay. If you choose not to, fine. Your call, but don't then kick off about not getting paid enough.

Nobody questions that there is overtime available for binmen, their work is never done. So, of the number on strike, how many are ACTUALLY losing out? And how many are rent-a-protestors? Poor attitude, that is my perception.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

There is NO threat of redundancies - the whole issue is about "equal" pay and when we say "equal" it means making teaching assistants wages = binmen wages = care assistance wages and so on. Only a moron would really think those jobs are all equal pay wise but then we have morons running public services.

The binmen are worth EVERY penny - I'd not notice if a burger flipper went on strike !

So, just to be clear - no change to basic pay. No job insecurity. Favourable additions and realistic means to boost earnings.

What, exactly is the problem?

Also, why keep mentioning "burger flippers"? Where is the relevance? It has nothing to do with this issue at ALL. It is merely meant as a distraction and that is pretty poor form and very cheap.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So, just to be clear - no change to basic pay. No job insecurity. Favourable additions and realistic means to boost earnings.

What, exactly is the problem?

Also, why keep mentioning "burger flippers"? Where is the relevance? It has nothing to do with this issue at ALL. It is merely meant as a distraction and that is pretty poor form and very cheap.

What exactly is the problem ? Imagine that YOU get up at 5am each day and travel the streets of the city through shi*t weather collecting peoples waste - in many situations very unpleasant waste. Now, with overtime, you're paid a pathetic £22k a year with which you support your family - pay a mortgage or rent, clothe your children and put food on the table - then all of a sudden some Green tosser comes along and says "Sorry mate, you're paid more than teaching assistants, care workers and swimming pool attendants so we need to cut your earnings by £1k to £4k, and by the way we CAN actually afford to pay you what you're earning now but tough." - I'm sure you'd do slightly more that get a little grumpy.

I selected burger flipping as an example as I thought I'd read on here that you did that to earn money but I apologise - working for Ladbrokes is such a more worthwhile job for the community than keeping the city clean !!!!! I'm sure we'd all notice if you went on strike ! I'm so impressed that your sympathy for these hard working people is so little but when students fees went up we couldn't miss your whining !