This binman strike...

[wellquickwoody]

What exactly is the problem ? Imagine that YOU get up at 5am each day and travel the streets of the city through shi*t weather collecting peoples waste - in many situations very unpleasant waste. Now, with overtime, you're paid a pathetic £22k a year with which you support your family - pay a mortgage or rent, clothe your children and put food on the table - then all of a sudden some Green tosser comes along and says "Sorry mate, you're paid more than teaching assistants, care workers and swimming pool attendants so we need to cut your earnings by £1k to £4k, and by the way we CAN actually afford to pay you what you're earning now but tough." - I'm sure you'd do slightly more that get a little grumpy.

I selected burger flipping as an example as I thought I'd read on here that you did that to earn money but I apologise - working for Ladbrokes is such a more worthwhile job for the community than keeping the city clean !!!!! I'm sure we'd all notice if you went on strike ! I'm so impressed that your sympathy for these hard working people is so little but when students fees went up we couldn't miss your whining !

Westdene Seagull, what an angry , detached from reality individual you are.

21st century says that if your basic pay is not being cut but your overly generous other allowances are being brought into line with the rest of the working population then most people won't give a shxt,.

Sounds like you, a friend, or a member of your family is a bin man. Or maybe you still dream of communism ruling the world.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Or maybe you still dream of communism ruling the world.

First time I've EVER been called a Communist given my support, currently, for UKIP.

I just get angry that so many people who wouldn't deem to get out of bed to do the binmen's job then complain about the state of the city. I truly don't believe that ANYONE would really rollover if their employer cut 20-25% of their pay. Those that just say "get another job" clearly don't live in the real world.

 

[mistahclarke]

They've played straight into the council's hands. Within the next year they'll move to contractors and use a temp workforce who'll agree to their terms. The writing is on the wall.

 

[drew]

Westdene Seagull, what an angry , detached from reality individual you are.

21st century says that if your basic pay is not being cut but your overly generous other allowances are being brought into line with the rest of the working population then most people won't give a shxt,.

Sounds like you, a friend, or a member of your family is a bin man. Or maybe you still dream of communism ruling the world.

Surely depends on how your work is structured. If overtime is a rare opportunity to make extra now and again then maybe no problem but if the employer ensures that workloads are such that overtime is a necessity and is part of your expected weekly hours then that is a different scenario.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

What exactly is the problem ? Imagine that YOU get up at 5am each day and travel the streets of the city through shi*t weather collecting peoples waste - in many situations very unpleasant waste. Now, with overtime, you're paid a pathetic £22k a year with which you support your family - pay a mortgage or rent, clothe your children and put food on the table - then all of a sudden some Green tosser comes along and says "Sorry mate, you're paid more than teaching assistants, care workers and swimming pool attendants so we need to cut your earnings by £1k to £4k, and by the way we CAN actually afford to pay you what you're earning now but tough." - I'm sure you'd do slightly more that get a little grumpy.

I selected burger flipping as an example as I thought I'd read on here that you did that to earn money but I apologise - working for Ladbrokes is such a more worthwhile job for the community than keeping the city clean !!!!! I'm sure we'd all notice if you went on strike ! I'm so impressed that your sympathy for these hard working people is so little but when students fees went up we couldn't miss your whining !

Is £22,000 per year pathetic? I don't think so. Not at all. So I suspect you're out of touch a bit in general. The reality is that perspective is a choice, and is based on experience. For me, I have a strong work ethic. I see any group of people go out on strike and I lose respect for them unless they can back it up. The firefighters were spot on and deserved more. Doctors and nurses CLEARLY should earn more for their work. Binmen are paid proportionately and it is about right in my opinion. This strike is frivolous.

You've got me all wrong there pal. Seriously. Never been a student, always wanted to work for my earnings, I started out in a newsagents at 15 and been working the majority of time since then, minus a very tough 2012. I wouldn't have been ashamed/upset by being a burger flipper by the way. Honest work is honest work.

They've played straight into the council's hands. Within the next year they'll move to contractors and use a temp workforce who'll agree to their terms. The writing is on the wall.

Those tortured souls won't take to that well. They'll have a little cry and demand attention.

Do we know when these people are back to work? Do they fancy doing a bit of work this week?

 

[clapham_gull]

Never been a student, always wanted to work for my earnings.

Do you think before you post ?

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Do you think before you post ?

I try not to. Spoils it.

I hardly think discounting the standard schooling to 16 plus sixth form college is unreasonable though. Did you think of that?

 

[clapham_gull]

I try not to. Spoils it.

I hardly think discounting the standard schooling to 16 plus sixth form college is unreasonable though. Did you think of that?

Eh ?

Unreasonable to what. Your argument ?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Surely depends on how your work is structured. If overtime is a rare opportunity to make extra now and again then maybe no problem but if the employer ensures that workloads are such that overtime is a necessity and is part of your expected weekly hours then that is a different scenario.

No it is not. Your basic pay is the minimum you can expect to earn over any given period.

How about we employ more bin men on the basic rate, meaning more streets/rubbish is cleared on a lower hourly rate. All council taxpayers are better off as we have a larger, more flexible workforce who are costing us all less, simples!

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Eh ?

Unreasonable to what. Your argument ?

My argument about binmen, not schooling.

Although some others have argued the two are related.

 

[clapham_gull]

My argument about binmen, not schooling.

Although some others have argued the two are related.

As you appear to have too.

 

[Petunia]

No it is not. Your basic pay is the minimum you can expect to earn over any given period.

How about we employ more bin men on the basic rate, meaning more streets/rubbish is cleared on a lower hourly rate. All council taxpayers are better off as we have a larger, more flexible workforce who are costing us all less, simples!

Makes sense. And then adopt the Adur and Worthing way of moving collection days after Bank Holidays so there is no need to pay overtime rates.

 

[drew]

Is £22,000 per year pathetic? I don't think so. Not at all. So I suspect you're out of touch a bit in general. The reality is that perspective is a choice, and is based on experience. For me, I have a strong work ethic. I see any group of people go out on strike and I lose respect for them unless they can back it up. The firefighters were spot on and deserved more. Doctors and nurses CLEARLY should earn more for their work. Binmen are paid proportionately and it is about right in my opinion. This strike is frivolous.

You've got me all wrong there pal. Seriously. Never been a student, always wanted to work for my earnings, I started out in a newsagents at 15 and been working the majority of time since then, minus a very tough 2012. I wouldn't have been ashamed/upset by being a burger flipper by the way. Honest work is honest work.



Those tortured souls won't take to that well. They'll have a little cry and demand attention.

Do we know when these people are back to work? Do they fancy doing a bit of work this week?

Sorry, but why exactly were the firefighters right. Not saying they don't do a fantastic job but there are plenty who, on their four days off do a separate job. As for Doctors, they earn a fortune for less work where as nurses have a massive workload and pay is at a standstill and their pensions have been robbed without any financial justification following a review of pension only 4 or 5 years ago.

No it is not. Your basic pay is the minimum you can expect to earn over any given period.

How about we employ more bin men on the basic rate, meaning more streets/rubbish is cleared on a lower hourly rate. All council taxpayers are better off as we have a larger, more flexible workforce who are costing us all less, simples!

That is so ridiculous. It's not a simple case of arithmetic, ie half the workload and employ two people instead of one. There are additional costs to an employer for each member of staff over and above salary. The additional cost has been estimated by some to be anything between 40 and 100% on top of the actual salary. Hence the reason many try to reduce the headcount and expect those left to work longer hours to cover the gaps.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I hate to be a harbinger of doom but I suspect this sort of dispute will become more common place. There is a lot more grief heading the way of our public services. The cuts we have seen to date are only the beginning, as the financial settlements for local govt for the next couple of years mean there will be very difficult decisions to be made, thousands of jobs and the quality of service we all receive (and to some extent take for granted) are all at stake. Social services, education, Police, Fire, Trading standards, local highways, Libraries, cultural services, planning, building control are likely to get decimated.

If ever there is a time to have competent people making the critical decisions about where to make cuts and how deep will be over the next of couple of years. The mainstream political parties deserve a kicking but the trouble with having Greens, UKIP, and independents in power across many local authorities (or having hung authorities) is that they may have ideals that appealed to the electorate but they have no real experience of governing and making service critical decisions. It could get very messy.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

As you appear to have too.

Out of order. I certainly have not and that is a very cheap jibe. I understand why you made the inference, but you're well off mark there. I reiterate what I said previously - honest work is honest work and I will never attempt to put anyone down for whatever job they may do.

 

[wellquickwoody]

That is so ridiculous. It's not a simple case of arithmetic, ie half the workload and employ two people instead of one. There are additional costs to an employer for each member of staff over and above salary. The additional cost has been estimated by some to be anything between 40 and 100% on top of the actual salary. Hence the reason many try to reduce the headcount and expect those left to work longer hours to cover the gaps.

What is ridiculous is arguing against common sense.

Even if these additional costs do actually make a sizeable impact it would only be at the inception of a change of staffing policy. Ongoing operational costs would be lowered, with the additional benefit of more staff being able to work in a more flexible manner.

Good point by Petunia, just move collection days back after a bank holiday, seems to work elsewhere, and would make considerable savings on overtime payments.

Here in Brighton the reason for a lowering of the headcount has probably been the fear of offending the historically left wing, militant bin men who have been holding this city to ransom since the 70's. Now the council has no choice but to realign the pay structure of staff due to new legal guidance, which incidentally I do not agree with, perhaps the blackmailers are having their bluff called

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The firefighters were spot on and deserved more. Doctors and nurses CLEARLY should earn more for their work. Binmen are paid proportionately and it is about right in my opinion. This strike is frivolous.

So you supported the firefighters despite their strike being about wanting more ? You even admit that the binmen are correctly paid so surely that means removing approx 20% of their income will mean they're NOT paid correctly ?

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I have a lot of sympathy for binmen. They're the people that could be on benefits. They could be the people who go to the jobcentre and say "there aren't ANY jobs.... except binmen, but I won't do that, obviously".

It's a horrid job, but those guys do it instead of sitting on their arse. I respect that. A lot.

If there was an suggestions box titled "How to save a few million quid" in the lobby of Hove Town Hall, I'm sure it would be full to the brim with a thousand other suggestions before this one came up.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They've played straight into the council's hands. Within the next year they'll move to contractors and use a temp workforce who'll agree to their terms. The writing is on the wall.

It would be a very stupid council that seriously considers outsourcing the service .... again ..... it was a disaster under both SITA and Ecovert.

 

[Simster]

I have a lot of sympathy for binmen. They're the people that could be on benefits. They could be the people who go to the jobcentre and say "there aren't ANY jobs.... except binmen, but I won't do that, obviously".

It's a horrid job, but those guys do it instead of sitting on their arse. I respect that. A lot.

If there was an suggestions box titled "How to save a few million quid" in the lobby of Hove Town Hall, I'm sure it would be full to the brim with a thousand other suggestions before this one came up.

I have to agree with this, Tom. I can be fairly pragmatic when it comes to the issue of tube strikers, rail workers and firemen striking. But binmen? They are not serial strikers really, the job is moderately paid, and it's not particularly nice work is it? It leaves me a little uneasy to see their real pay being cut.