[News] There's no need to panic buy petrol

[Brovion]

I suppose it's where you are rather than Northeners or Southerners being so different. My Dad filled up fine on Saturday near Uckfield.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19605417.petrol-stations-hit-fuel-shortages-across-region/

Yes it was just an unscientific generalisation, I wasn't expecting it to be taken seriously . Anyway, I'm in Uckfield now (came on the bus) and it is now completely 'dry'. Can't speak for Whitby!

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Just another day on NSC with the Brexit Tourettes sufferers...

'We are not saying it's all about Brexit but .. Brexit Brexit, Brexit brexit... '

You don't see that you're just the exact mirror of this?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And those fundamental problems include the consequences of Brexit.

I haven’t actually dismissed an opposing point of view, you haven’t really given one, you just seem to not want to include leaving the EU as any part of this - that is the main thing I’ve picked up on with you, and actually not proclaimed you are wrong or proclaimed I know definitively what is going on.

The only convenient thing in our discussion is you dismissing any view different to yours.

Again, I’m afraid that’s not true. I haven’t dismissed anything. My criticism of the usual suspects blaming Brexit (like they do for anything that goes wrong) does not mean that it is not a contributory factor in this one. Any individual EU lorry driver that has gone home because of Brexit and not been replaced is clearly and unambiguously a consequence of us leaving the EU. It is the next step of ‘well we shouldn’t have left then’ that I am commenting upon. Removing cheap foreign labour from the market was always going to be difficult for business and its profits. Of course they will try to use the media to back up their case and of course there will be people very open to the narrative. A more proactive Government would have tackled this five years ago.

 

[B-right-on]

One thing that is indisputable is that initially there was a fuel supply shortage due to a shortage of drivers. And the shortage of divers was because.......?

Fuel HGV drivers are paid less than food and other delivery drivers

More rules from the EU over driver safety meaning older drivers can't be bothered to do all the 'driver training' every 5 years and so retire.

Youngsters are not going into the HGV business. Crap service station facilities don't help. £5000 cost to get an HGV license.

Relatively low wages.

Plus some returning back to their country of origin.

In other words, lots of causes.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It doesn’t help when Tesco are in dispute with their drivers over a pay rise being offered to some, but not all drivers.

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/tescos-new-pay-policy-leaves-5807334

 

[sparkie]

Again, I’m afraid that’s not true. I haven’t dismissed anything. My criticism of the usual suspects blaming Brexit (like they do for anything that goes wrong) does not mean that it is not a contributory factor in this one. Any individual EU lorry driver that has gone home because of Brexit and not been replaced is clearly and unambiguously a consequence of us leaving the EU. It is the next step of ‘well we shouldn’t have left then’ that I am commenting upon. Removing cheap foreign labour from the market was always going to be difficult for business and its profits. Of course they will try to use the media to back up their case and of course there will be people very open to the narrative. A more proactive Government would have tackled this five years ago.

My view is that it is not leaving the EU which is the problem, but the incompetent way that it was implemented. Bad decisions and choices were made.

 

[Stoichkov]

Well, its all a bit of a binfest down here isn't it? I wonder if - locally - we're going to struggle to get out of it in the short term? There'll be loads of people who haven't needed to get fuel but will do soon and those higher users will be back for more in a day or two. I can't see how supply will satisfy demand?

What doesn't help the queues (but maybe not the supply) is just how many fewer petrol stations there are now compared to, say 20-30 years ago. Just along the Lewes Road area there was the Shell opposite where the BP still is, one at the bottom of Coombe Road where 'Carpet Right' is, a Esso further along Lewes Rd where there's a Co-Op (?) now and - my favourite - that Esso up Hollingdean Road.

'Lost Petrol Stations of Brighton & Hove' - I might start a...nah

 

[Cheshire Cat]

And the shortage of divers was because.......?

In no particular order......

Fallout from Brexit
Immigration rules
Fallout form covid
Drivers getting old and leaving
Drivers not getting old, but still leaving
Complete lack of foresight and contingency planning by central government (see all above)
Media frenzy (especially media frenzy)
Great British public - never underestimate their capacity for total stupidity, naivety, and willingness to believe anything and everything somebody has told them regardless of whether it is real or imagined
Herd instinct and panic......

PS - not sure about the shortage of divers though (lack of oceans?).

 

[Justice]

It's the general tone of your most recent posts that made me think you go down the alternative route.

You claimed it was a joke, then said it "got them thinking". Why did it get them thinking if it was a joke?

You talked about people being "sheep" and "not trusting government" - all classic Facebook/Twitter tropes used by conspiracy theorists.

I clearly got it wrong, so apologise unreservedly.

I don’t trust a word that comes out of any politician’s mouth so you got that bit right. I forget sometimes working on site is completely different to working in the office it’s a constant stream of piss taking all good fun though.

 

[B-right-on]

Just spoke to a mate who's Mrs is a Paramedic and he said there is a petrol station in Brighton that's got fuel but closed to all non essential workers. She had to show a specific pass they were issued with during lockdown and could fill up.

Doesn't help me to get fuel but good to know that the essential services are catered for.

 

[sparkie]

Well, its all a bit of a binfest down here isn't it? I wonder if - locally - we're going to struggle to get out of it in the short term? There'll be loads of people who haven't needed to get fuel but will do soon and those higher users will be back for more in a day or two. I can't see how supply will satisfy demand?

What doesn't help the queues (but maybe not the supply) is just how many fewer petrol stations there are now compared to, say 20-30 years ago. Just along the Lewes Road area there was the Shell opposite where the BP still is, one at the bottom of Coombe Road where 'Carpet Right' is, a Esso further along Lewes Rd where there's a Co-Op (?) now and - my favourite - that Esso up Hollingdean Road.

'Lost Petrol Stations of Brighton & Hove' - I might start a...nah

We get out of it by ramping up tanker deliveries ( army, possibly emergency drivers/full tankers from overseas ).

Also hopefully there are enough people that topped up but hardly use their cars still having full tanks.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In no particular order......

Fallout from Brexit
Immigration rules
Fallout form covid
Drivers getting old and leaving
Drivers not getting old, but still leaving
Complete lack of foresight and contingency planning by central government (see all above)
Media frenzy (especially media frenzy)
Great British public - never underestimate their capacity for total stupidity, naivety, and willingness to believe anything and everything somebody has told them regardless of whether it is real or imagined
Herd instinct and panic......

PS - not sure about the shortage of divers though (lack of oceans?).

Very good. But you have conflated the shortage of rivers with the shortage of fuel. Media frenzy and Great British Public and Herd Instinct may conribute to one but not the other.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Just spoke to a mate who's Mrs is a Paramedic and he said there is a petrol station in Brighton that's got fuel but closed to all non essential workers. She had to show a specific pass they were issued with during lockdown and could fill up.

Doesn't help me to get fuel but good to know that the essential services are catered for.

I wonder how many there are dotted around and where they draw the line on essential

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Again, I’m afraid that’s not true. I haven’t dismissed anything. My criticism of the usual suspects blaming Brexit (like they do for anything that goes wrong) does not mean that it is not a contributory factor in this one. Any individual EU lorry driver that has gone home because of Brexit and not been replaced is clearly and unambiguously a consequence of us leaving the EU. It is the next step of ‘well we should t have left then’ that I am commenting upon. Removing cheap foreign labour from the market was always going to be difficult for business and it’s profits. Of course they will try to use the media to press to back up their case and of course there will be people very open to the narrative. A more proactive Government would have tackled this five years ago.

So basically, we have to crow bar you away from the 'usual suspects' in order to get a much more balanced opinion on the forces at work here. Perhaps any acknowledgement of the challenges leaving the EU has given us feels too much like giving fuel to the 'other side' (if you'll excuse the pun).

I will pick up on one thing, 'cheap foreign labour' – is there any evidence EU drivers were paid less than their UK counterparts? Marco Digioia, the head of the European Road Haulers Association has actually said European wages for drivers is generally higher than in the UK, and EU funding has helped ensure facilities for stop overs for drivers are of a much higher standard and less cost to the drivers than in the UK as well.

We all carry our perspective and opinions, calling EU workers 'cheap foreign labour' just seems like another rhetorical aspect of where people stand on the EU. I seem to remember the London School of Economics did a study that showed that EU migrant workers didn't actually drive down wages, they just fulfilled a need in our economy. Now I agree with you that now needs to be filled, and when you have a shortage of workers you may well find salaries start to rise, and in turn inflation. Challenging economic times ahead that is for sure.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You don't see that you're just the exact mirror of this?

For that to be true you need to find a post where I have claimed Brexit has had zero impact on driver shortages

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

One thing that is indisputable is that initially there was a fuel supply shortage due to a shortage of drivers. And the shortage of divers was because.......?

if this were an exam essay question, we'd expect a good long answer looking at the long term deterioration of the profession, impact of regulations (right or wrong), aging work force retired out of without replacement, working conditions etc, brexit then covid as a recent factors exacerbating these long term issues. wouldnt get marks for answering "Brexit!". our resident lorry drivers have stated there is a long path of problems, not a single cause.

i point this out as when we keep on putting blame of everything on one cause, people will switch off, and the other significant issues will be drowned out. brexit may be a contributing factor to why we have a shortage of drivers, it is not the cause of this situation. this was caused by one press release being reported with inflated magnitude.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Well, its all a bit of a binfest down here isn't it? I wonder if - locally - we're going to struggle to get out of it in the short term? There'll be loads of people who haven't needed to get fuel but will do soon and those higher users will be back for more in a day or two. I can't see how supply will satisfy demand?

What doesn't help the queues (but maybe not the supply) is just how many fewer petrol stations there are now compared to, say 20-30 years ago. Just along the Lewes Road area there was the Shell opposite where the BP still is, one at the bottom of Coombe Road where 'Carpet Right' is, a Esso further along Lewes Rd where there's a Co-Op (?) now and - my favourite - that Esso up Hollingdean Road.

'Lost Petrol Stations of Brighton & Hove' - I might start a...nah

It doesn't look good at the moment, if I'm honest. I have held off thinking it was going to get better.

As for lost Petrol stations, Peacehaven and Newhaven has seen four Petrol Stations close over the years. Add to this the number of new builds going up around here, adding more cars to local roads, it doesn't help.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

adding more cars to local roads, it doesn't help.

You raise a good point actually. It would be nice is this crises makes people reevaluate their need for the all journeys they make, or even whether they need a car at all. I doubt it though.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So basically, we have to crow bar you away from the 'usual suspects' in order to get a much more balanced opinion on the forces at work here. Perhaps any acknowledgement of the challenges leaving the EU has given us feels too much like giving fuel to the 'other side' (if you'll excuse the pun).

I will pick up on one thing, 'cheap foreign labour' – is there any evidence EU drivers were paid less than their UK counterparts? Marco Digioia, the head of the European Road Haulers Association has actually said European wages for drivers is generally higher than in the UK, and EU funding has helped ensure facilities for stop overs for drivers are of a much higher standard and less cost to the drivers than in the UK as well.

We all carry our perspective and opinions, calling EU workers 'cheap foreign labour' just seems like another rhetorical aspect of where people stand on the EU. I seem to remember the London School of Economics did a study that showed that EU migrant workers didn't actually drive down wages, they just fulfilled a need in our economy. Now I agree with you that now needs to be filled, and when you have a shortage of workers you may well find salaries start to rise, and in turn inflation. Challenging economic times ahead that is for sure.

It’s quite easy to find a perspective different to yours from respectable sources on the internet eg;

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...xposed-britains-exploitative-low-wage-economy

It is also undeniable that wages are now going up since cheap foreign labour was removed from the market. That is how the market works and it is not surprising that business is not keen.

As to a balanced view, well, I have never said that Brexit was not a contributory factor. I have simply responded to posts that claim it is the main cause because that’s what the poster wishes to believe. You seem to have got it into your head that I do not acknowledge the challenges to be faced with huge constitutional change which really is an odd take on it.

 

[TomandJerry]

Best for Britain

(@BestForBritain)

This is what a Dutch HGV driver, and representative of an EU drivers’ union thinks of the short term visa scheme: “The EU workers we speak to will not go back to the UK for a short term visa, to help UK out of the s**t they created themselves.”

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