The Vaccine Thread

[Fungus]

With the facts as we now know them.

What I am interested in is whether - based on what we know now - people would prefer to have one elderly relative injected twice and the other one unprotected, or both elderly relatives injected once each. For me, I would go for both once each, but I'm interested in other views.

With no expertise in this, I'd be more comfortable with both of them having one jab each (even in the unlikely event of the protection "fading"). Get as many people protected as possible, to get over the hump of the new virus variation. If would obviously take a long time to compare the efficacy of the 12-week gap versus the 3-week gap, but I'd hope there is some live trialling going on. Longer term, I imagine we'll be getting vaccinations on a regular basis as per the flu.

 

[Rugrat]

I’m quite relaxed about this as seems to make sense, particularly for the Oxford vaccine where the longer interval has already been subject to some testing with positive results.

Given one dose of either pretty much eliminates the risk of getting seriously ill or dying from the virus, getting twice as many vulnerable people jabbed once quickly rather than taking twice as long gets us out of the mire so much more quickly. Second jabs and rollout to the wider population can soon follow.

I don't disagree but I fear part of the logic is due to the massive balls up they are about to make.

Their are many thousands that could be brought in to administer and who could have been 'trained' to the extent needed. I believe there would be armies of volunteers and a willingness for those in the 50+ age groups to go at any time of day or night.

I'm sure a case could be made to have n million with jab 1 and jab 2 by n date but suspect we'll be here end of Jan saying 'wtf is going on?' ...... I so hope I'm wrong

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I don't disagree but I fear part of the logic is due to the massive balls up they are about to make.

Their are many thousands that could be brought in to administer and who could have been 'trained' to the extent needed. I believe there would be armies of volunteers and a willingness for those in the 50+ age groups to go at any time of day or night.

I'm sure a case could be made to have n million with jab 1 and jab 2 by n date but suspect we'll be here end of Jan saying 'wtf is going on?' ...... I so hope I'm wrong

If Witty is correct we have a massive short fall of Vaccines.

India have 50 million of Oxford ready to go

 

[Rugrat]

If Witty is correct we have a massive short fall of Vaccines.

India have 50 million of Oxford ready to go

I heard we had the vaccine but were short of the phials to put it in!!

Whatever, we've known for an eternity this was coming down the line

It will be **** up of immense proportions I fear

 

[beorhthelm]

the talk about vaccine shortage is odd, gone from 10m in production, making 150k a day, to only 530k available. not sure how AstraZeneca could have made a mistake on this front, so wait to see if this is some expectation management. unless the shortage is refering to the Pfizer vaccine and confusion set in among the media.

 

[clapham_gull]

The criticism comes after Pfizer said that it only assessed its vaccine on a two-dose regimen where people were given the jab three weeks apart, and there was "no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days".

In a statement, Pfizer says: "Pfizer and BioNTech’s Phase 3 study for the Covid-19 vaccine was designed to evaluate the vaccine’s safety and efficacy following a 2-dose schedule, separated by 21 days.

It’s fair to say they know more about the jab/data than our guys?

After an interview I listened to tonight, no not really.

 

[clapham_gull]

I heard we had the vaccine but were short of the phials to put it in!!

That's a worldwide issue, not just a UK one.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

After an interview I listened to tonight, no not really.

Could you point me in the direction? Would put a few minds at ease

 

[clapham_gull]

Could you point me in the direction? Would put a few minds at ease

Sorry difficult, I listen to the radio more than TV and was some GP head giving a different view from the BMA. Possibly BBC - I'll try and find it.

It was very balanced, appreciated the nightmare this has caused GPs.

 

[clapham_gull]

Could you point me in the direction? Would put a few minds at ease

Ok found it. He importantly points out the difference between the level of prevention after a single jab and the longevity of prevention after a single jab.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000qnj0

39:54

Doesn't come across as a Government mouth piece.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Ok found it. He importantly points out the difference between the level of prevention after a single jab and the longevity of prevention after a single jab.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000qnj0

39:54

Doesn't come across as a Government mouth piece.

A great. Thank you muchly

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

 

[Driver8]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

Just when you think the Government can’t **** things up any more than they have already......

 

[beorhthelm]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

"If a second dose of one vaccine isn’t available, another may be substituted, according to new U.K. guidelines"

the guidance doesnt say anything like that, at least not in the Dose and Schedule section and cant find other reference. both drugs are covered and reckon the author has misread the section. elsewhere guidance has xplicit said you cant interchange the vaccines, if someone gets one they wont get the other.

i've found it, in the very unlikely scenario they have a break of treatment, GP lost their paperwork:
" There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine. For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule. This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered
unlikely to attend again. I".

so not mix and match, it states this shouldnt be done, give what is available if high risk. 'king irresponsible journalism.

 

[macbeth]

this is the real worry for me...

https://twitter.com/PaulBieniasz/status/1344277738576900097

 

[nicko31]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

Surely if the second dose is not administered inline with the manufacturers direction the vaccination is not certified. Aside of any unknown side effect other countries may well deem these patients not vaccinated.

This is worrying

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Shitehawk Newspaper

But Vaccine companies have hit back and said its UKs fault for the delay

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ernment-warnings-months-long-supply-gaps.html

 

[golddene]

I posted this link a few weeks ago, it deals with the origins of the Oxford / Astra / Zenica vaccine and answers questions on how the half dose full dose came about including how it was a deliberate trial and not accidental as some have intimated ( from app 20 mins in) Herd immunity from vaccines ( App.30 mins in) Time between doses ( app. 37 mins in) How this will probably be endemic in this country due to being an open society with our being a travel hub, hence further vaccinations are probably likely.( 38 mins)


https://www.gv.com/news/vaccitech-adrian-hill-covid-19-vaccine/

 

[macbeth]

For those still concerned about the whole 'one dose' thing, I would suggest having a read of this thread from a vaccine researcher at Oxford, was also retweeted by the fantastic Devi Sridhar, who's been spot on about nearly everything during the pandemic:
https://twitter.com/sandyddouglas/status/1344949258483621888?s=19

And also this tweet here as to why Pfizer advised against the one-dose regime:
https://twitter.com/sandyddouglas/status/1344987903835971584?s=19

Makes a lot more sense now

 

[Yoda]

My biggest worry with the current incompetent government is they'll rush through so many people with the first vaccination, yet when it comes to peoples second dose in twelve weeks time, there won't be enough supply to carry on giving enough people their first dose.