[Drinking] The trouble in Leeds

[Midget]

The police were attacked because they were removing children from a home. They had no means of protecting the children, nor themselves.
They didn’t go into the riot or else they would’ve been given protective equipment.

Firefighters won’t go into a burning building if there aren’t any people to rescue, but will operate outside to try to save it.
Human life is more precious than objects.

This.

Police officers are just people from the community, trained and willing to deal with extraordinary situations. They have families, they go to the gym, they watch football. They are not the military and neither are they cannon fodder.

By law they are not expected to put themselves at unreasonable risk, even though the public often expects them to and some choose to. They are expected to read a situation, assess risk and take appropriate action to preserve life and prevent crime where they can. They are not expected to take reckless risks, wade in without thinking, or deal with situations they are not equipped for, all of which can actually be more dangerous to the public as well as themselves.

That's why there are specially trained public order officers with appropriate kit, officers on horseback, firearms officers, officers trained to use taser, dog handlers, etc. Most officers you see on the street, or supporting social services activity for example, are just regular response or neighborhood officers, and many of those are still pretty new in service. They don't attend expecting a riot to kick off and neither should they. They are not riot police. But they will take the action required of them if it happens.

They will all do what they can to protect life and prevent crime, it's why they joined and what they signed up to. They are absolutely not expected to give up their lives or get seriously injured in order to do so, although they and their families know that's always a risk, every day. And many sadly do end up losing their lives. But they are not expected to throw them away. And certainly not to save a ****ing bus.

Calling taking the action required of them under the law "retreating", is ridiculous rhetoric and only serves to inflame the anti-police narrative. Maybe they're not gung-ho enough for some people's liking. Good. That's exactly why they are trained and bound by a legal framework and a professional code of conduct, not loose cannons putting people's lives at risk. They are certainly not cowards, and to suggest that from behind a keyboard is pretty offensive tbh. They, and their commanding officers with years of experience of leading public order situations, will always look at the most appropriate action to take and sometimes that's to stand back. And they won't give a sh*t that someone on a forum somewhere with no idea of what policing is really like, might think it makes them look a bit soft.

 

[Midget]

Also, just as a point of interest. "Policing by consent" is nothing to do with whether the individuals you are policing at the time give consent or not. It doesn't mean people consent to come quietly and say "it's a fair cop mate", or they get nicked. And it certainly doesn't mean if someone refuses to come quietly then it's not "being upheld" so all bets are off and due process goes out the window. It's nothing to do with that.

Policing by consent means the people as a whole consent to having a police service in place and that it's considered legitimate, generally because the police are bound by various open and transparent laws and codes, they are seen to have integrity and are held accountable for their actions. Rather than, say, the people having a military police force or secret police imposed on them without consent.

 

[carlzeiss]

This.

Police officers are just people from the community, trained and willing to deal with extraordinary situations. They have families, they go to the gym, they watch football. They are not the military and neither are they cannon fodder.

By law they are not expected to put themselves at unreasonable risk, even though the public often expects them to and some choose to. They are expected to read a situation, assess risk and take appropriate action to preserve life and prevent crime where they can. They are not expected to take reckless risks, wade in without thinking, or deal with situations they are not equipped for, all of which can actually be more dangerous to the public as well as themselves.

That's why there are specially trained public order officers with appropriate kit, officers on horseback, firearms officers, officers trained to use taser, dog handlers, etc. Most officers you see on the street, or supporting social services activity for example, are just regular response or neighborhood officers, and many of those are still pretty new in service. They don't attend expecting a riot to kick off and neither should they. They are not riot police. But they will take the action required of them if it happens.

They will all do what they can to protect life and prevent crime, it's why they joined and what they signed up to. They are absolutely not expected to give up their lives or get seriously injured in order to do so, although they and their families know that's always a risk, every day. And many sadly do end up losing their lives. But they are not expected to throw them away. And certainly not to save a ****ing bus.

Calling taking the action required of them under the law "retreating", is ridiculous rhetoric and only serves to inflame the anti-police narrative. Maybe they're not gung-ho enough for some people's liking. Good. That's exactly why they are trained and bound by a legal framework and a professional code of conduct, not loose cannons putting people's lives at risk. They are certainly not cowards, and to suggest that from behind a keyboard is pretty offensive tbh. They, and their commanding officers with years of experience of leading public order situations, will always look at the most appropriate action to take and sometimes that's to stand back. And they won't give a sh*t that someone on a forum somewhere with no idea of what policing is really like, might think it makes them look a bit soft.

Attacking fire fighters in West Yorkshire appears to be traditional sport for some less well educated folk according to this article from the BBC

Firework and stone attacks on firefighters happen weekly, say crews

West Yorkshire fire officers say crews face regular attacks with fireworks, bricks and stones.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Dave the OAP]

It’s l***s

end of thread

 

[Bronto]

The police were attacked because they were removing children from a home. They had no means of protecting the children, nor themselves.
They didn’t go into the riot or else they would’ve been given protective equipment.

Firefighters won’t go into a burning building if there aren’t any people to rescue, but will operate outside to try to save it.
Human life is more precious than objects.

At the risk of getting sidetracked, I’d just like to clarify that Firefighters will routinely enter burning buildings regardless of whether there are persons reported inside. Admittedly they will take less risk to fight a fire in an unoccupied building, but if it’s saveable, they will carry out internal firefighting to minimise fire spread as it’s the only effective method of doing so.

Domestic homes aside (which of course contain irreplaceable personal items), the total loss of a commercial property can have a massive impact on a community when you consider that, following a serious fire:

• 25% of businesses never re-open.
• 80% of companies who don’t recover in a month are likely to go out of business.

Be in no doubt that the Fire & Rescue Service will do everything they can to save a property. The only time you will see external firefighting, is if the building is already lost and the level of risk to enter is unacceptable.

The police carry out a difficult job and has been stated already, they don’t go to work to get killed or seriously injured. Acceptance of risk at an incident, is commensurate with the decision to deploy personnel into a hazardous situation (whichever blue light service is involved) and is down to the knowledge and experience of the on-scene commander. In the dynamic phase of an incident it’s vital to ensure that early decisions aren‘t subsequently scrutinised with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if things go pear shaped.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Probably without a job and scrounging off the state as they have a 'bad back' or 'anxiety.'

This you?

Somewhat insulting the use of that word. Perhaps the 'tramp' has been through some really traumatic times and through no fault of their own have found themselves struggling with life.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Police retreating sends a very dangerous message to those who were actively breaking the law.
It say they are free to continue to break the law and no-one will stop them and arrest them, thereby not upholding the rule of law of this country.
We traditionally Police by consent in this country.
If that consent is not upheld, then we are giving those who want to break the law as we saw in Leeds, we as a country, are in big trouble, as will embolden more, knowing they won’t get stopped.

The police were there to protect the social workers and remove the children. The mob objected to that, so do the police abandon the children to fight back?
Use some common sense. Their car had been overturned. What is their priority? To guard the innocent social workers and children, not to fight!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

At the risk of getting sidetracked, I’d just like to clarify that Firefighters will routinely enter burning buildings regardless of whether there are persons reported inside. Admittedly they will take less risk to fight a fire in an unoccupied building, but if it’s saveable, they will carry out internal firefighting to minimise fire spread as it’s the only effective method of doing so.

Domestic homes aside (which of course contain irreplaceable personal items), the total loss of a commercial property can have a massive impact on a community when you consider that, following a serious fire:

• 25% of businesses never re-open.
• 80% of companies who don’t recover in a month are likely to go out of business.

Be in no doubt that the Fire & Rescue Service will do everything they can to save a property. The only time you will see external firefighting, is if the building is already lost and the level of risk to enter is unacceptable.

The police carry out a difficult job and has been stated already, they don’t go to work to get killed or seriously injured. Acceptance of risk at an incident, is commensurate with the decision to deploy personnel into a hazardous situation (whichever blue light service is involved) and is down to the knowledge and experience of the on-scene commander. In the dynamic phase of an incident it’s vital to ensure that early decisions aren‘t subsequently scrutinised with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if things go pear shaped.

I am in no doubt about the duties of the Fire & Rescue Service.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

97,000 illegal immigrants in Leeds? No wonder the Roma, and anyone else who happen to live there, smash up buses.

The logical links are immutable.

aka "It stand to reason, innit"

Leeds in exaggerated numbers shocker

 

[Cornwallboy]

This you?

Nothing to do with you. One thing I don't do is come on here posting that I can't attend a match because 'I'm going to Dublin with work.' Why show off about it? Wouldn't I can't go suffice?

 

[GT49er]

So, to step back from this 'who should have done what' binfest for a minute, what happened to the kids and the social workers?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Nothing to do with you. One thing I don't do is come on here posting that I can't attend a match because 'I'm going to Dublin with work.' Why show off about it? Wouldn't I can't go suffice?

Put the bottle down and go to bed,

 

[Cornwallboy]

Put the bottle down and go to bed,

He he is that the best you've got? What ya gonna do? Ban me? 'Discourage' me?

 

[Greenbag50]

The police were there to protect the social workers and remove the children. The mob objected to that, so do the police abandon the children to fight back?
Use some common sense. Their car had been overturned. What is their priority? To guard the innocent social workers and children, not to fight!

The mob took exception to the police protecting social workers and removing them.
Decided they didn’t like it and made decision to riot.
Point stands that the people committed criminal damage to public and private property and were left to get on with it, for hours, without any enforcement of law.
If they think they can get away with it, we will see them get away with it, because they can.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes I'm aware of how it started, but once it had they shouldn't have withdrawn and they should've offered protection to the fire service. Didn't see them 'withdrawing' in Brixton / Toxteth / Handsworth etc but I guess that's when they were the police 'force' and not the police 'service.' when they employed burly men and not the little girls they employ nowadays who don't to me appear to be physical capable of carrying out the role.

Exactly.

Gone are the days when they employed traffic wardens tall enough to actually reach the windscreen and slap the ticket on without needing a leg up or step ladder

 

[Cornwallboy]

Exactly.

Gone are the days when they employed traffic wardens tall enough to actually reach the windscreen and slap the ticket on without needing a leg up or step ladder

Exactly. I know we've had our differences WZ but so good we've agreed on something.

 

[GT49er]

Exactly. I know we've had our differences WZ but so good we've agreed on something.

Actually, I'm not entirely convinced that you do.............................

 

[WATFORD zero]

Exactly. I know we've had our differences WZ but so good we've agreed on something.

We are certainly agreed that tiny parking wardens are completely f***ing pointless whatever the scenario

 

[StonehamPark]

Nothing to do with you. One thing I don't do is come on here posting that I can't attend a match because 'I'm going to Dublin with work.' Why show off about it? Wouldn't I can't go suffice?

I'm only skimming through the thread, but this post caught my eye.
I can't imagine anyone 'showing off' about visiting Dublin. Let alone for work, total ballache either way imo.

 

[Midget]

The mob took exception to the police protecting social workers and removing them.
Decided they didn’t like it and made decision to riot.
Point stands that the people committed criminal damage to public and private property and were left to get on with it, for hours, without any enforcement of law.
If they think they can get away with it, we will see them get away with it, because they can.

They won't get away with it. But reactionary pricks on social media will have moved on to their next point-scoring crusade by then.