[Politics] The Tories hit new LOWS with the Windrush situation

[The Large One]

Again, I respectfully disagree. The policy to stop some from using Bank of United Kingdom, when they have no right to do so, is anything but ill thought out, in my opinion.

I say again: People jumping on an Air India flight once a year to pop over and take all they can grab from this country is wholly wrong.

The implementation of that policy has clearly been ill thought out however.

You're continuing to cite one story from one family - assuming this tale is true, and it really doesn't sound like it is - as a justification for an entire piece of legislation which stops people who've been in this country longer than you from functioning as contributors to society.

We're talking about people not being allowed to have jobs they'd had for years; we're talking about people not being allowed to live in the houses they'd lived in for years; we're talking about people being deported without due process to places they know little about. And when it's pointed out to the Home Office, they're not interested.

 

[seagulls4ever]

I'm not sure I've seen anything presented on this story yet that clearly indicates an explicit desire for the current government to enforce wholesale deportation on people who, to all intents and purposes, are as British as many of us and deserve the same access to all this country has to offer as I do. As useless as Theresa May so clearly is on many levels, I don't believe that is her intent here.

Where is the proof that this has been implemented, as you say, out of spite?

I've no idea what's gone through Theresa May's mind, but she does have a history of showing a lack of compassion. One case I remember is when Home Secretary she approved the extradition to the US of a student who was accused of copyright infringement, and earning about 150k from it. Basically, he set up a website, where he linked to other websites which hosted TV shows and films. He didn't actually host anything himself. The same TV shows and film links could be found on Google, for example. Furthermore, he had not broken any UK laws at the time. Yet Theresa May approved an extradition request. I seem to recall some protests at the time. Anyway, Theresa May approved the extradition, which he of coursed appealed, and during this time he managed to come to an agreement with the US to drop the case (he paid a fine and signed an agreement not to break US laws). The whole situation was a joke, but thankfully it turned out OK in the end, despite May and the government of the time.

 

[Bozza]

You're continuing to cite one story from one family - assuming this tale is true, and it really doesn't sound like it is - as a justification for an entire piece of legislation which stops people who've been in this country longer than you from functioning as contributors to society.

We're talking about people not being allowed to have jobs they'd had for years; we're talking about people not being allowed to live in the houses they'd lived in for years; we're talking about people being deported without due process to places they know little about. And when it's pointed out to the Home Office, they're not interested.

1. I absolutely believe it to be true. I've spent more time with the man in question than I've spent with you, for example. I'm not sure why someone I've spent some time with would fabricate this story.

2. Regardless of that, I'm not using this story to justify anything at all. I do, however, agree that some measures should be put in place to stop people who don't contribute to our society from merely seeking to take from it.

3. Again, I am attempting to make no justification for why anyone who has lived here for long periods of time should be asked to leave. There is none. That is clearly fundamentally wrong.

I'm not sure if you answered my question for some proof that this legislation was put in place out of spite (your word), to look to perform wholesale deportation against thousands of people. If you've swerved that, it is probably because either there is none, or you've been unable to find it.

I've not seen anything to suggest that this is not a case of well meaning legislation being administered dreadfully, causing undoubted stress and hardship on those it wasn't intended to impact. That's inexcusable, but there's a world of difference between intended malice, and just utter incompetence.

 

[Pevenseagull]

You're continuing to cite one story from one family - assuming this tale is true, and it really doesn't sound like it is - as a justification for an entire piece of legislation which stops people who've been in this country longer than you from functioning as contributors to society.

We're talking about people not being allowed to have jobs they'd had for years; we're talking about people not being allowed to live in the houses they'd lived in for years; we're talking about people being deported without due process to places they know little about. And when it's pointed out to the Home Office, they're not interested.

And a home secretary who couldn't be arsed / is too fundamentally shit to be prepared for the most simple of questions.
No confidence in the current REGIME.

And I am no fan of Corbyn

 

[GT49er]

Like a census every ten years?

Which thirty years ago was subject to much stricter rules than now. Potential prison for those who wouldn't co-operate, every census form needing to be signed for and accounted for - now just chucked through the letterbox with little or no follow up.

 

[Chicken Run]

Just when everybody thinks the Tories can't get any worse they do with treating the Windrush people with the threat of deportation , what an utterly morally repugnant government they are and what a nasty , racist piece of work Theresa May is as this lands right on her desk as home secretary.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/no-10-refuses-caribbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush?CMP=share_btn_tw

Well another in another 3 years that soppy muggy excuse for a leader of the opposition can get going again and bullshit young people convincing them to vote for his nutty party and we can put this horrific government and their behaviour behind us right, Corbyn will win the next election right?

 

[clapham_gull]

I've not seen anything to suggest that this is not a case of well meaning legislation being administered dreadfully, causing undoubted stress and hardship on those it wasn't intended to impact. That's inexcusable, but there's a world of difference between intended malice, and just utter incompetence.

Although very hard not to admit that it plays against a background of a party attempting to appeal to his right wing.

They were called (in the past) the nasty party for a very good reason.

The poll tax (from what I've read) was a bureaucratic cock up that got out of hand, but they were more than happy to allow OAPs to be prosecuted.

The Home Secretary needs to resign. The minute politicians start blaming the civil service they are toast anyway.

 

[Mental Lental]

A single and direct register of who resides in the U.K. is what’s needed. And no, it isn’t difficult as other nations do it.

I have been registered as a resident of Japan for 11 years. I'm now classed as a "permanent resident" which is as close as you can get to being a Japanese citizen without switching passports.

Unsurprisingly it seems that the NSC Tory brigade are out in force, trying to defend the indefensible. Some of the attempts to save a bit of face with the usual "yeah but Labour...." rhetoric are truly reprehensible.

 

[Eeyore]

Despite being, what some term, a Corbyist, I am uneasy about the political point scoring here. This is not about politics. It is about gross incompetence.

That said, the fact that this went unheard and was even dismissed until the public outcry from all sides of the political spectrum needs serious address.

 

[nicko31]

Just walked past the news agents, even the racist part of the media are all over this. Paul Dacre clearly been onto Theresa again

 

[clapham_gull]

What concerns me is that how it has been under described as a beurucratic mistake.

This has shamed the Government, a retrospective repatriation policy the far right would be proud of.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

The Home Secretary needs to resign. The minute politicians start blaming the civil service they are toast anyway.

and saying minsters should resign is a political gesture, it doesnt fix the problem or address the reasons. we have a stupidly convoluted system of citizen, subject, commonwealth subject, right of abode (new one on me, relevent here), leave to remain (just look as those words) etc, that changed a half dozen times in legislation. im very surprised this application of rules has carried on for so long without become a public affair, because its not the intent to deport peoples from 50 years ago, but to address a politcally sensitive issue of benefit/health tourism. someone cocked up on drafting the legislation (should have exempted those before 1971 Immigration Act, possibly 1982 legislation too), and the Home Office has been typically British in appling the rules even though they dont make sense to the individual circumstances. lets see if they fix that, then if they dont is time to ask for heads.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Despite being, what some term, a Corbyist, I am uneasy about the political point scoring here. This is not about politics. It is about gross incompetence.

That said, the fact that this went unheard and was even dismissed until the public outcry from all sides of the political spectrum needs serious address.

Out of interest what makes you a Corbyinista? I am really struggling to find anything to recommend the man.

I'm lifelong left leaning on social issues but shudder to think of him, Abbott and McConnell in the nation's hot seat.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The poll tax (from what I've read) was a bureaucratic cock up that got out of hand, but they were more than happy to allow OAPs to be prosecuted.

The Poll Tax was in principle a decent idea. Almost everyone uses council services and the poll tax meant everyone would pay for them rather than with rates or the now council tax, you can cram loads of people into one property ( all of whom use council services ) and still pay the same rates/tax. What the government of the day didn't account for was how much people that had never paid rates would kick off about now having to pay poll tax. It WAS badly introduced and it might have become difficult to administer BUT it was a much fairer tax than rates. That said poll tax nor rates nor council tax take any account of the ability to pay so none are/were perfect.

 

[looney]

I will vouch for you on this. Friend went to california,shocked at how many people he saw on the street. Couldn't believe it was America.

When you get to many people flooding in and lack affordable accommodation or work you get shanty towns, like South America or Africa, or the Jungle in Calais. Then crime and violence spikes. Its only a matter of time before this occurs in the UK, around the M25 and parts of the south Coast. There is nothing wrong with Governments dealing with this unless you think because parts of the world are shitholes then the UK should become one as well.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You genuinely believe that the intention of this policy was to deport those who have lived here for years and have a right to do so, and this isn't a tragic case of the baby being thrown out with the bathwater?

And in what way is or will back-tracking occur? I certainly would not expect the government to, metaphorically at least, open up and allow all-comers to use our services, and why would they? What clearly needs to happen is a shift in the burden of proof required, such that those who have lived here for many years are able to easily illustrate that and get on with living their lives in the country they call home.

The back tracking was yesterday morning Theresa May refused to talk to the Commomwealth leaders tomorrow, but yesterday afternoon changed her mind.

Heads in sand ostrich style & refusing to believe they'd got it horribly wrong until forced to do so. As I said I I don't believe they were targeted, but it has been going on for three years & only now been brought to light.
Baby and bath water definitely but why didn't anyone stand up and question it until now?

As a chap on tv has just said where was the respect? The attitude was hostile and they've asked for help previously when people had trouble claiming pensions, health care, and losing jobs and driving licences.

 

[Klaas]

Despite being, what some term, a Corbyist,

Big Trouser Press fan?

 

[Tokyohands]

The bunch of fckwits running the country into the ground need to be removed asap. They're absolutely useless.

 

[looney]

Very much so having represented a number of humanitarian charities/NGO organisations on different projects over a sixteen year period. I've worked in the Third Sector nearly twenty years- still do, although not for a humanitarian group at this time.

If you cannot see that the depiction of a Mexican as a cartoon character with flies around their head- alongside a rather smart representation of Donald Trump, and followed by your own endorsement of the wording in respect of this situation is racist then, well, I cannot help you see it.

There are a number of folk on NSC who hold views I find difficult when it comes to race and immigration. However, I try to engage rather than attack. Simply because I just think they have the wrong view. That's how a board should work.

You, in my opinion (I get that) have crossed a very liberally distant line.

As regards coming back crying, the only thing that moved me close to tears was reading of the plights of some of these folk.

Sadly, unless you can show me my error, I feel it rather lost on you.

Note: I have not suggested that anyone else on this thread has suggested or posted anything racist or unsympathetic. I don't agree with that thought which was suggested by interpretation of one entry.

NGOs and orgs youve worked with are part of the problem, ie providing a Taxi service across the med for illegal immigrants..

The flies around the figure represent poverty not race(see my response in my last post), if you cant tell the difference between poverty and its negative impacts then I cant help you.

Also becoming a bleeding heart because some have a sob story isn't solved by making everyone have a sob story, but nuances like this are totally lost on you.

"has suggested or posted anything racist or unsympathetic."

This is where you endulge the "Tyranny of the left". Just because I am offering a different solution does not make me unsympathetic, it means I do not believe your "Solutions" will work and have a better idea.

If you think you can promote one solution and respond with emotional arguments to all others your not going to get very far. This is wondering oftopic with your snowflakery, my original point was that DACA and whats going on in the UK have many similarities.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

If the UK adopts the role of international flop house for every refugee fleeing poverty, war, oppression or famine we will, very soon, be a complete disaster area.

My solution? Bring back the empire. At least the third world was well managed.