The shootings in France [Merged]

[34064 Fighter Command]

These were British tourists on a camping holiday. Sounds to me like a mindless act of violence, particularly as a passer by was killed also, although I guess they could have been a witness.

You can understand the girl hiding and not moving instinctively, and you can understand the police not touching the scene until forensics get there (once they had established that the victims were all deceased). Just a very sad story. Poor girl.

Yes they are tourists, but consider that they are in a remote location, the odds of someone just 'randomly' coming across them seems far fetched. People who go on a 'shooting spree' want as many targets as possible, so they go to densely populated areas. Targeting everyone in a specific vehicle , and it being only the adults, and leaving children spared, and then not taking the vehicle, AND the opportunity being in a remote area with no witnesses - either there's something exceptionally valuable been taken from the vehicle ( cash, drugs ? ), which presupposes the assailant knows the victims are in possesion of such items, AND have been followed - so the assailant and the victims are known to each other, and consequently the victims would recognise the assailant, therefore making it easy for him to be captured.

So MOTIVE - don't yet know. But sufficient that the assailant would rather shoot the occupants before they got out of the car, rather than forcing them out of the car at gunpoint. Even if it's 'roadrage' some people can easily 'flip' if they get that angry, but it doesn't explain why a cyclist would be shot.
METHOD - assasination at close range. But the assailant has gone out armed with a lethal weapon. Roadrage doesn't sound a sensilble motive as it's not exactly easy to go around with a gun in France, they have similar restrictions to gun ownership as we do. The odds of meeting a gun toting person during a roadrage incident must be millions to one against.
OPPORTUNITY - a remote area with no witnesses ( but one unfortunate passer by on a bike in the wrong place at the wrong time ).

= Something very fishy about why this has taken place. It's definitely not a robbery because they were after the car - there's another aspect to this that's as yet unknown.

 

[dingodan]

We can all guess. Was it a contract killing, was it robbery gone wrong, or was the family on holiday or fleeing England because of trouble. Sad sad news but will be interesting to see what the police find out. Let's hope they catch the bast**ds

They were a family on a camping holiday. The deceased are the mother, father and grandmother. They were reported missing by fellow campers Wednesday night.

I agree we need to wait and see what happened, but I think it is fair to say that this was not likely to be a contract hit.

 

[Falkor]

That poor 4 year old girl lets pray she gets all the help she needs.

And pray the other young girl makes a full recovery

 

[clippedgull]

Everything crossed that the little girl found outside the car pulls through and is able to shed some light on the events leading up to this brutal act.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

A pretty tenuous link, reported in the Telegraph, to some armed carjackings nearby...

Police investigating the slaying of a British family on holiday near Chevaline in the French Alps are looking at links between the shooting and two attempted carjackings by an armed gang last night.

Four masked attackers tried to steal two cars in the Isere region, 50 miles away from the scene where a mother, father and grandmother were gunned down in a BMW.
Two young girls, thought to be their daughters, survived the attack with the younger, a four-year-old, hiding beneath her mother's body for eight hours before she was found.
Police are probing possible links with two attempted thefts at gunpoint and said a gang, armed with a pistol, tried to steal a Ford Fiesta at 10pm last night.
Then at 1am, the same gang tried to car-jack a Peugeot 205 in nearby Ville-sous-Anjou.

If you're prepared to shoot an entire family to death in their car, surely you wouldn't be then going round trying to steal these fairly cruddy old motors....

Sounds like a contract killing to me based on the information released so far

 

[Falkor]

Yes they are tourists, but consider that they are in a remote location, the odds of someone just 'randomly' coming across them seems far fetched. People who go on a 'shooting spree' want as many targets as possible, so they go to densely populated areas. Targeting everyone in a specific vehicle , and it being only the adults, and leaving children spared, and then not taking the vehicle, AND the opportunity being in a remote area with no witnesses - either there's something exceptionally valuable been taken from the vehicle ( cash, drugs ? ), which presupposes the assailant knows the victims are in possesion of such items, AND have been followed - so the assailant and the victims are known to each other, and consequently the victims would recognise the assailant, therefore making it easy for him to be captured.

So MOTIVE - don't yet know. But sufficient that the assailant would rather shoot the occupants before they got out of the car, rather than forcing them out of the car at gunpoint.
METHOD - assasination at close range.
OPPORTUNITY - a remote area with no witnesses ( but one unfortunate passer by on a bike in the wrong place at the wrong time ).

= Something very fishy about why this has taken place. It's definitely not a robbery because they were after the car - there's another aspect to this that's as yet unknown.

f*** my life this forum

You been watching to much Bourne

 

[dingodan]

Yes they are tourists, but consider that they are in a remote location, the odds of someone just 'randomly' coming across them seems far fetched. People who go on a 'shooting spree' want as many targets as possible, so they go to densely populated areas. Targeting everyone in a specific vehicle , and it being only the adults, and leaving children spared, and then not taking the vehicle, AND the opportunity being in a remote area with no witnesses - either there's something exceptionally valuable been taken from the vehicle ( cash, drugs ? ), which presupposes the assailant knows the victims are in possesion of such items, AND have been followed - so the assailant and the victims are known to each other, and consequently the victims would recognise the assailant, therefore making it easy for him to be captured.

So MOTIVE - don't yet know. But sufficient that the assailant would rather shoot the occupants before they got out of the car, rather than forcing them out of the car at gunpoint.
METHOD - assasination at close range.
OPPORTUNITY - a remote area with no witnesses ( but one unfortunate passer by on a bike in the wrong place at the wrong time ).

= Something very fishy about why this has taken place. It's definitely not a robbery because they were after the car - there's another aspect to this that's as yet unknown.

Sorry, I like to look at things in detail too, but what you are saying is just bat shit crazy. There is no reason to think any of this. Yes they were in a remote location. Likely anyone anywhere in the local area would be in what could be considered a remote location. How do you know they were not robbed? And what do you mean they were "after the car"?

I believe the eldest girl, aged about 7 or 8 was found nearby in a critical condition, so it appears she was not spared either.

 

[Ur_havin_a_Laugh]

They were a family on a camping holiday. The deceased are the mother, father and grandmother. They were reported missing by fellow campers Wednesday night.

I agree we need to wait and see what happened, but I think it is fair to say that this was not likely to be a contract hit.

If people after u know where u live u get out quick if u know they know where ur mum lives u take her with u. Makes sense.
IMO they went on a quick vacation to get away quick? Don't slate peoples posts after all we r all guessing

 

[Tom Bombadil]

but I think it is fair to say that this was not likely to be a contract hit.

Why would it be fair to say that?

 

[LE19]

Why would it be fair to say that?

Lack of evidence so far?

 

[dingodan]

If people after u know where u live u get out quick if u know they know where ur mum lives u take her with u. Makes sense.
IMO they went on a quick vacation to get away quick? Don't slate peoples posts after all we r all guessing

Or maybe taking Gran for a nice holiday? I had not read that they went on a "quick vacation" is that the case? Did they the country unexpectedly?

If that is the case it could raise suspicions, your post was still crazy tho

 

[Ur_havin_a_Laugh]

Or maybe taking Gran for a nice holiday? I had not read that they went on a "quick vacation" is that the case? Did they the country unexpectedly?

If that is the case it could raise suspicions, your post was still crazy tho

U watch to much CSI. Everybody stop posting dingo knows everything

 

[dingodan]

Why would it be fair to say that?

Because a family on holiday does not tend to be the target of contract killers.

We know that they were a family on holiday, and they were murdered.

We know little or nothing about their lives, some of these suggestions about contract killers and secret valuable cargo are a bit much at this point IMO.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Piss poor police work.

I'm struggling to believe a crime scene can be left for 8 hours, all the while a 4 year old is hiding under the bodies.

Not quite the same. But over here an ambulance was called to a house the other day because someone rang through saying there was someone sick inside.

They knocked on the door, no answer so drove away as the curtains were pulled. Didn't call the Police.

31 hours later the Police arrive at the house to find a dead mother and a 15 month old child who'd been locked in the house all that time with the deceased mother.

 

[Mellotron]

Yes they are tourists, but consider that they are in a remote location, the odds of someone just 'randomly' coming across them seems far fetched. People who go on a 'shooting spree' want as many targets as possible, so they go to densely populated areas. Targeting everyone in a specific vehicle , and it being only the adults, and leaving children spared, and then not taking the vehicle, AND the opportunity being in a remote area with no witnesses - either there's something exceptionally valuable been taken from the vehicle ( cash, drugs ? ), which presupposes the assailant knows the victims are in possesion of such items, AND have been followed - so the assailant and the victims are known to each other, and consequently the victims would recognise the assailant, therefore making it easy for him to be captured.

So MOTIVE - don't yet know. But sufficient that the assailant would rather shoot the occupants before they got out of the car, rather than forcing them out of the car at gunpoint. Even if it's 'roadrage' some people can easily 'flip' if they get that angry, but it doesn't explain why a cyclist would be shot.
METHOD - assasination at close range. But the assailant has gone out armed with a lethal weapon. Roadrage doesn't sound a sensilble motive as it's not exactly easy to go around with a gun in France, they have similar restrictions to gun ownership as we do. The odds of meeting a gun toting person during a roadrage incident must be millions to one against.
OPPORTUNITY - a remote area with no witnesses ( but one unfortunate passer by on a bike in the wrong place at the wrong time ).

= Something very fishy about why this has taken place. It's definitely not a robbery because they were after the car - there's another aspect to this that's as yet unknown.

No offence mate but I'm glad you're not a detective - you've made a MASSIVE amount of assumptions in there, a number of which could very easily be wrong.

 

[Falkor]

why do people think its a hit and why do people say its not, we have no idea, assumptions are not great.

At the moment its a tragic incident we know no more than that.

But links i am reading seem to suggest police are linking it to car jackngs in the area, could quite easily have been a car jacking gone wrong

 

[junior]

I KNEW this would get everyones imaginations running away with them.

FWIW my money is on the Bourne/Chris Ryan type scenario.

 

[cloud]

Lack of evidence so far?

Exactly, too early to come to any conclusions either way.

The 8-yr old girl will be the key witness, once she comes around.

 

[Falkor]

Exactly, too early to come to any conclusions either way.

The 8-yr old girl will be the key witness, once she comes around.

If she has any memory of it has a fractured skull and was badly beaten and shot

 

[StillHateBellotti]

Its a grim thought, but the police found 15 spent rounds at the scene. They might not have needed to check the bodies very closely.

Surely your first thought is to go to the aid of the shooting victims, not hunting 15 spent cartridges which lets face it may have taken a while to find! and would have been found anyhow in the subsequent forensic evaluation of the scene!