[Politics] The Right Honourable Suella Braverman. KC MP **Sacked 13/11**

[Thunder Bolt]

Police guard Rochdale cenotaph after graffiti and damage to wreaths reported | UK news | The Guardian

Two teenagers being charged with public nuisance offences and in another incident ‘Free Palestine’ has been sprayed on monument

amp.theguardian.com

It is a war memorial not a ‘cenotaph’. Journalists are rubbish copying each other.

What is the literal meaning of cenotaph?


empty tomb

The word cenotaph is derived from the Greek kenos taphos, meaning "empty tomb." A cenotaph is a monument, sometimes in the form of a tomb, to a person or group of persons buried elsewhere.

 

[jcdenton08]

It is a war memorial not a ‘cenotaph’. Journalists are rubbish copying each other.

What is the literal meaning of cenotaph?


empty tomb

The word cenotaph is derived from the Greek kenos taphos, meaning "empty tomb." A cenotaph is a monument, sometimes in the form of a tomb, to a person or group of persons buried elsewhere.

Rochdale Cenotaph - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wikipedia

 

[jcdenton08]

Wikipedia

Rochdale Cenotaph, Non Civil Parish - 1084274 | Historic England

List entry 1084274. Grade I Listed Building: Rochdale Cenotaph. May include summary, reasons for designation and history.

historicengland.org.uk

Rochdale Cenotaph

Cenotaph

www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk

Rochdale Cenotaph

Memorial type: Cenotaph

www.iwm.org.uk

 

[shingle]

I don't know, why don't you ask the people that came out in force trying to save BHAFC during the dark days of the 1990s why THEY bothered?

Not quite the same thing is it.

And, as far as I know, it's not a one-off, there have been marches every Saturday since the whole thing kicked off.

and have they stopped the bombings or had any effect on Israel's actions.?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Cenotaph

The Cenotaph is a national war memorial in London. Now in the care of English Heritage, it is the site of the National Service of Remembrance every November.

www.english-heritage.org.uk

The Cenotaph, not a cenotaph but The. Singular. Rochdale may be copycats but it is a war memorial.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Not quite the same thing is it.

and have they stopped the bombings or had any effect on Israel's actions.?

Clearly not the same, but a protest is a protest. Who are you to say what people should or shouldn't do?

And no, it's clearly not stopped anything. But, again, why should that be a reason to stop.

 

[shingle]

Clearly not the same, but a protest is a protest. Who are you to say what people should or shouldn't do?

And no, it's clearly not stopped anything. But, again, why should that be a reason to stop.

I'm not telling people what they should or shouldn't do I'm just saying that they're probably not going to make much of a difference, that's all !!

 

[Pevenseagull]

Rochdale Cenotaph, Non Civil Parish - 1084274 | Historic England

List entry 1084274. Grade I Listed Building: Rochdale Cenotaph. May include summary, reasons for designation and history.

historicengland.org.uk

Rochdale Cenotaph

Cenotaph

www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk

Rochdale Cenotaph

Memorial type: Cenotaph

www.iwm.org.uk

Semantics


I'm anti - semantics









(I pray to God, the tooth fairy, Father Christmas and the rest of them that people see what I've done there)

 

[shingle]

And no, it's clearly not stopped anything. But, again, why should that be a reason to stop.

Because Israel has said that it doesn't care what you and I have to say. The only people that might change things are the Americans and even they will have a hard job.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I'm not telling people what they should or shouldn't do I'm just saying that they're probably not going to make much of a difference, that's all !!

Er, you kinda are:

'And, I'm sorry to say, whats the point of the march anyway, it might make people feel good about themeselves but it wont stop'

'Unfortunately we are powerless to change anything and have to wait for things to run their course'.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Because Israel has said that it doesn't care what you and I have to say. The only people that might change things are the Americans and even they will have a hard job.

OK then

 

[Zeberdi]

No need to get all sanctimonious with me, you've been quite sensible up to now with your posts particularly on the other thread.

Are you wooshing me?

You really think me quoting MLK, a figure almost synonymous with the C20th civil rights movement and admired specifically for his commitment to nonviolent resistance to achieve equal rights for Black Americans is being ‘sanctimonious’ ? - No figure is more closely identified with the mid-20th century struggle for civil rights than MLK for which deservedly he won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964.

This whole thread is very pertinent to civil rights and nonviolent resistance - It raises the issue of not just the civil freedoms of Palestinians living under a brutal apartheid regime of occupation but our civil rights too, particularly the right to protest, that is under threat in UK by a government moving incrementally and with grandmother footsteps to the far right of British politics thinking nobody is noticing.

If you don’t like the MLK quote how about John Stuart Mill (1867)?

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”

Point is, we can not be merely voyeurs on human suffering or just ‘hope’ it won’t last long - inhumanity wherever it takes place in the world should concern us deeply as human beings, the more we deny or insulate ourselves from it, the more inhuman we ourselves become. (IMO!)

 

[shingle]

Er, you kinda are:

'And, I'm sorry to say, whats the point of the march anyway, it might make people feel good about themeselves but it wont stop'

'Unfortunately we are powerless to change anything and have to wait for things to run their course'.

I think my comments are edging more towards the futility of the situation rather than telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing, well that's the way they were meant anyway

 

[Winker]

A letter from a British Army veteran who will be marching on Armistice Day which sums it up perfectly for me …

“I served in the British Army between 1992 and 2000, mainly in the UK, Germany and Belize. My partner is also a veteran of the Balkans conflicts, and many of my friends are serving and ex-serving members of the military, who share my anger that people in government – most of whom have never worn a uniform, and for whom war is an abstract concept – claim to speak for the rest of us.

While I am sure they exist somewhere, I have yet to meet anyone from my own circle of military friends who has voiced genuine concerns about tomorrow’s planned march from Hyde Park to the US Embassy on Armistice Day calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

Personally, I cannot think of a more appropriate day to demand a ceasefire than on the day we remember the mother of all ceasefires, to remember and honour those who sacrificed their lives in pursuit of peace and an end to war.

I will be marching for peace tomorrow. The idea being pushed that this march is somehow disrespectful to the Glorious Dead, that people like me are ‘hate marchers’ is as disrespectful as it gets to the many of us who observe and remember our friends or relatives – and all victims of war – during the silence of the Armistice. The real disrespect to the Armistice is the weaponisation of remembrance as part of the government’s wider ‘culture war’.

I am horrified by the tone, language and incitement our own government is using to whip up hatred against its own citizens – citizens who are standing up in solidarity with the besieged and bombed citizens of Gaza. It is clear that our hollow and awful politicians are dog-whistling to the far right, who have responded with a call to stand pointlessly – but menacingly – around statues and the cenotaph (which, incidentally, tomorrow’s march route passes nowhere near).

So where are the many self-proclaimed free speech tsars now to defend our right to freedom of speech, assembly, and the right to protest? Undoubtedly, they are rallying behind the cruel and ridiculous rhetoric of home secretary Suella Braverman as she and her government colleagues seek to defend Israel’s right to commit war crimes on its watch, and to silence or outlaw anyone who holds the view that its actions are unacceptable. In her pursuit of this agenda, she has even taken aim at the Metropolitan Police, making them a target for far right violence by absurdly portraying them as biased toward Palestinian solidarity protesters.

Where are the voices of our opposition in all this too? Why isn’t Kier Starmer speaking for me and millions of us who have no choice but to sit idly by as we watch scenes of utter terror being inflicted upon fellow human beings – bombs falling on schools and hospitals and entire families being blown apart? I don’t want a brief ‘pause’ to allow victims to gather their broken bodies while the abuser resets themselves to deliver the next blow. I want a full ceasefire now.

Braverman does not seem to want to see a peaceful march tomorrow. She is doing everything she can to stir hatred and division, undoubtedly so she can continue her ongoing attack on the wider right to protest in the UK.

Like so many of the Armed Forces, both serving and veterans, who will be in London this weekend, I am not fooled by her faux-outrage, and she certainly does not speak for me.”

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/gaza-suella-braverman-palestine-solidarity-march-armistice-day-remembrance-veteran/

This person is ignoring the elephant in the room, the elephant in the room is a terrorist organisation called hamas who's primary aim is to destroy the state of Israel and kill every Jew. It is hamas who have started this war, Israel has every right to defend itself.

These people are not marching for me.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I think it’s a shame the cenotaph is being dragged into this. I think any campaigner, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, JSO or frankly anyone should do the right thing and not bring such a symbol of remembrance into the current issues in the world.

The Cenotaph is only being dragged into it by people who don't know the difference between Saturday and Sunday & geographical locations in London!

 

[Zeberdi]

I think my comments are edging more towards the futility of the situation rather than telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing, well that's the way they were meant anyway

Yes, it all does seem so futile - I can totally understand why so many would feel that - also Judging by the lack of input now on Hamas-Israel thread and on social media in general, people are becoming already bored or desensitised to the war in Gaza - even the media has peaked with its attention span - at least these demonstrations (whether they directly make any difference or not) keep the plight of the Palestinian people in the public eye and while that continues to happen, I believe nonviolent direct action in the form of demonstrations is a force for good.

 

[shingle]

Are you wooshing me?

You really think me quoting MLK, a figure almost synonymous with the C20th civil rights movement and admired specifically for his commitment to nonviolent resistance to achieve equal rights for Black Americans is being ‘sanctimonious’ ? - No figure is more closely identified with the mid-20th century struggle for civil rights than MLK for which deservedly he won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964.

This whole thread is very pertinent to civil rights and nonviolent resistance - It raises the issue of not just the civil freedoms of Palestinians living under a brutal apartheid regime of occupation but our civil rights too, particularly the right to protest, that is under threat in UK by a government moving incrementally and with grandmother footsteps to the far right of British politics thinking nobody is noticing.

If you don’t like the MLK quote how about John Stuart Mill (1867)?

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”

Point is, we can not be merely voyeurs on human suffering or just ‘hope’ it won’t last long - inhumanity wherever it takes place in the world should concern us deeply as human beings, the more we deny or insulate ourselves from it, the more inhuman we ourselves become. (IMO!)

Yep, you been whooshed, 'and you fell for it like the fascist you are' (that's a quote from the late great Rick Mayal in the Young Ones)

Of course you're not a fascist Zeb, but the quote sounds good eh

 

[shingle]

The Cenotaph is only being dragged into it by people who don't know the difference between Saturday and Sunday & geographical locations in London!

Why is it then that the BBC are reporting that the Met Police are setting up an exclusion zone around the Cenotaph on both Saturday and Sunday, do they have intel that none of us are privy to.

Surely they are aware of timings and geography

 

[Zeberdi]

This person is ignoring the elephant in the room, the elephant in the room is a terrorist organisation called hamas who's primary aim is to destroy the state of Israel and kill every Jew. It is hamas who have started this war, Israel has every right to defend itself.

These people are not marching for me.

Well this is the wrong thread to respond fully to your comments (feel free to post it again on the Hamas thread ) but suffice to say your ‘elephant’ is in Gaza right now oppressing it’s own civilians and using them as human shields while it fights an enemy who’s primary aim is to destroy the enclave of Gaza and kill or displace the entire civilian population - Hamas will not be marching for peace in London tomorrow I can absolutely assure you. Edit - ie. they won’t be marching anywhere.