The Queen vs The Republic

[Herr Tubthumper]

That policy certainly worked well for the French didn't it?

The terror, the great terror, the republican Napoleon marry himself to a Hapsberg and naming his son the King of Rome?

What Republic are they on now? Is it 5?

No wonder they are so bitter.

The French enjoy excellent food, excellent wine, champagne, and set fire to anything they don't like. Bitter? Sorted more like.

 

[Maldini]

Prince is dead.Long live the Queen.

 

[biddles911]

To quote from the Crown Estate's website:



So that does seem to be the amount that's going to the Treasury?

The democracy argument is way more compelling than the cost one, and it's one that I'm much more torn on.

I think suggesting that the Crown Estate is generating income to the Treasury as a direct result of the monarch's largesse is pretty misleading.

The Estate consists of property held by the monarch since 1066, give or take fluctuations due to rewarding supporters or confiscating land from opponents!

It's managed by an independent board and its income would continue with or without a monarchy.

The Royal family do pay income tax, however, on their "private" income such as the Duchy of Cornwall and private estates so this is a much fairer indication of their direct contribution to the Treasury.

No idea how much this is worth but a lot less than the £300m quoted for the Crown Estate, I'll bet.....,

 

[halbpro]

I think suggesting that the Crown Estate is generating income to the Treasury as a direct result of the monarch's largesse is pretty misleading.

The Estate consists of property held by the monarch since 1066, give or take fluctuations due to rewarding supporters or confiscating land from opponents!

It's managed by an independent board and its income would continue with or without a monarchy.

The Royal family do pay income tax, however, on their "private" income such as the Duchy of Cornwall and private estates so this is a much fairer indication of their direct contribution to the Treasury.

No idea how much this is worth but a lot less than the £300m quoted for the Crown Estate, I'll bet.....,

But the monarchy still owns the estates right? They're managed by the independent board, but should the monarchy no longer continue the money earned from the land would no longer be contributed to the treasury (at least not all of it, obviously there would be tax on the profits from the Crown Estate etc...). The deal was the government pays for the monarchy's expenses, the Treasury gets the profits from the estate. If we break one half (no longer paying the monarchy) then why would they keep up their end of the bargain?

 

[biddles911]

But the monarchy still owns the estates right? They're managed by the independent board, but should the monarchy no longer continue the money earned from the land would no longer be contributed to the treasury (at least not all of it, obviously there would be tax on the profits from the Crown Estate etc...). The deal was the government pays for the monarchy's expenses, the Treasury gets the profits from the estate. If we break one half (no longer paying the monarchy) then why would they keep up their end of the bargain?

Technically you may be right but, in practice, I cannot see that the monarchy would be allowed to formally acquire several billion pounds worth of assets to buy them off if we decided to completely remove their position in our "unwritten" constitution?!

Don't think there's much point in debating the finer points of the Royal P&L to the taxpayer. Just don't think we can present them as a clear asset in terms of net income.

The debate is surely more about their role in a modern society....?

 

[halbpro]

Technically you may be right but, in practice, I cannot see that the monarchy would be allowed to formally acquire several billion pounds worth of assets to buy them off if we decided to completely remove their position in our "unwritten" constitution?!

Don't think there's much point in debating the finer points of the Royal P&L to the taxpayer. Just don't think we can present them as a clear asset in terms of net income.

The debate is surely more about their role in a modern society....?

They're not acquiring them though, the monarch still owns the Crown Estate now. They'd just no longer provide the treasury with the profits from the Crown Estate. Theoretically the government could take over the estate, but it'd get into some very murky territory about the definitions of property and ownership that, I imagine, any government would rather avoid.

I think their role is a much more meaningful debate for sure, I was just correcting the financial point initially as others were mentioning it.

 

[beorhthelm]

But the monarchy still owns the estates right? They're managed by the independent board, but should the monarchy no longer continue the money earned from the land would no longer be contributed to the treasury (at least not all of it, obviously there would be tax on the profits from the Crown Estate etc...). The deal was the government pays for the monarchy's expenses, the Treasury gets the profits from the estate. If we break one half (no longer paying the monarchy) then why would they keep up their end of the bargain?

because the Monarchy is the office, not the person, so those assets owned by the Monarch are effectively already owned by a branch of the state, not private. the Queen's personal wealth is estimated at some 30m which is from some estates (Balmoral, Windsor, but i dont believe Buckingham palace), art, shares and other assets. the estates were only as part of the monarchy after a previous arrangement agreed with Parliament, who ultimately determines the pay arrangement to the monarchy. this has been the case ever since they invited William of Orange to take the job.

 

[spring hall convert]

I'm in a position that is fairly commonplace, I think.

I have no personal truck with The Queen, for someone who has lived a life as privileged as hers, she does seem to have a genuine sense of duty that within reason should be applauded.

I have an issue that her suitability for the role is decided by which vagina she emerged from. It's mental.

 

[cunning fergus]

The French enjoy excellent food, excellent wine, champagne, and set fire to anything they don't like. Bitter? Sorted more like.

If only they had managed to set the German panzers alight in 1940 they would have saved a lot of people a lot of trouble.....

 

[Seagull]

On the property owned by the Crown or the Royals, most of that should be returned (nominally or actually) to the state.
The Royals should become private citizens fully subject to tax of all types just like the rest of us, including inheritance tax! We can allow them a palace (e.g. Buck House) a beefeater and a coach or two for heritage tourism in exchange for a stipend of some kind, but the rest of their wealth must be redistributed for the benefit of the people.