[Politics] The NSC 'up all night' election night *** OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD ***

[jackalbion]

I do have an agender. The taint of anti-Semitism had to be expunged. No ifs, no buts. Nobody is accusing labour of anti-Semitism now.

Meanwhile Starmer has very certainly not given any succour to Bibi. Not that the UK's support (or not) for Israel is relevant.

A split vote in one constituency and old IDS returned is a small and irrelevant battle lost. Like Corbyn willing his seat. These outcomes do not reflect the national imperative, and a mistake by Starmer. It does not mean Starmer is even more right wing than 'Liar Blair' (for those who hate Blair for having the temerity to back the US over Saddam).

No, Starmer should not have clung on to the anti-Semitic trope fools, especially Corbyn. I can't even remember the other one's name. That would have been fundamentally stupid.

Ultimately why an even bigger labour landslide won't be achieved, you can't just accuse people of being Anti-Semites at every corner. I feel like this conversation is just going to be a rant where any other opinion isn't going to be accepted at all so I'll stop, a bit of nuance wouldn't go a miss, but when it comes to labour factional politics it brings out the worst of both sides. Another incredibly shite Tory MP kept their seat because two people on the left couldn't agree and got obssessed with factional politics, like I said it wouldn't go a miss to not just use inflammatory language (from both sides).

 

[kevo]

Just got up - but in my defence I was 'still up for Truss'.
Difficult night to interpret really - obviously a lot of tactical voting, but people more motivated by kicking out the Tories than inspired by Labour. How would Labour had done if Reform didn't exist?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He has a huge majority now. Dullness as in tinkering with things isn't going to cut it. He needs to be bold and effect some real change for the better. Whilst you will disagree, the lack of votes for him (just over 20% of the electorate) means that, if things do not start getting better and quickly, he could well be out on his ear in 5 years time.
Dull as in no controversies is fine, dull as in not doing much is not.

If he allows the country to drift into 'worse' he will deserve to be booted out. I can't see that happening at all.

But there will be no gimmicks, no Rwanda, no petty shithousery, no pandering to special pleaders (whether the doctors' 'union' or the pro-Hamas lobby). And no dithering.

 

[TomandJerry]

A significant moment - Sir Keir Starmer has just arrived at Buckingham Palace alongside his wife for his audience with King Charles.

 

[Weststander]

That’s a bit of stretch using Brexit as a point of picking the audiences considering that’s was pre the last election. Both the Dg and the chairman are stooges for the Tory party as you only have to look Laura Keuessberg performances.

Of all the things in the world to get angry about, the DG and Kuenssberg just don't hit my radar. If I had a tenner for every time someone had espoused their loathing of her on NSC. Media individuals are often accused of bias by zealots who would absolutely hate it if they found out they don't support their narrow view of the world. There was the BBC news reader who visibly laughed at Boris resigning, as I said Nick Robinson was perceived by the SNP as the enemy. Kuenssberg needed a security guard at Labour conferences during the Corybn years,

Some, but thankfully not the majority, wind themselves up on all things party politics. And it's getting worse.

 

[KZNSeagull]

To be honest, I can't claim to be too plugged in to the smaller sort of towns which went Conservative for the first time last time, you'll probably have a much better feel for that than me being in Wolsingham. That said, when I do go to places like Barney or Bishop Auckland, they feel like the sort of places that in any other part of the country would be safely Conservative or maybe Con/Lib Dem if they were in the South West (in other words either heavily rural or a bit shit). If there isn't some sort of visible effort made in those areas it shouldn't be a surprise if people try voting Conservative or for other parties as a protest.

I'm not overly concerned by the Reform vote in Sunderland or Newcastle, they've had sizeable UKIP votes in the past, and the people I know from those places are so relaxed about how safely Labour they are that they just aren't all that bothered about getting out to vote.

I struggle to get a handle on it tbh. Coming from leafy Sussex I didn't experience the industrial past of just about everywhere in this area, even the little villages, so the sense of community is a surprise (a nice one). There is a definite feeling that people want change but to what I do not know - Ben Houchen winning again is a good example, as some of his dealings are just a tad shady! Redcar voting Lib Dem in 2010 is another as they had got nothing from Labour and when that didn't work, voting Conservative! I just have a feeling that the Reform vote was a protest and it will only get bigger if things do not change in the short term.

 

[Eeyore]

Starmer's stance on Gaza cost him. A tiny bit. Two seats lost because of it. One retaken. You can't win them all.

Glad he did not try to wheedle with the pro-Hamas lobby.

If Starmer has piled into Israel the second they began their revenge for the disgusting attack by Hamas it would have been absurd. Corbyn would have done so, after a few days of dither admittedly, and his noble stance would, in the long run, have saved exactly no lives. None.

I love the fact that Starmer does not do gesture politics.

He lost my vote over Gaza after some comments he made after the start of the conflict. It caused me to realise how, like other politicians, he'll do what he can to be elected and appease the media. I think his delight at the endorsement of Rupert Murdoch was the final evidence.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Ultimately why an even bigger labour landslide won't be achieved, you can't just accuse people of being Anti-Semites at every corner. I feel like this conversation is just going to be a rant where any other opinion isn't going to be accepted at all so I'll stop, a bit of nuance wouldn't go a miss, but when it comes to labour factional politics it brings out the worst of both sides. Another incredibly shite Tory MP kept their seat because two people on the left couldn't agree and got obssessed with factional politics, like I said it wouldn't go a miss to not just use inflammatory language (from both sides).

Well unfortunately some people can do, and they're frequently people from the right with an agenda. And I'm very definitely not talking about Harry Wilson's Tackle.

It's like the argument about Labour's seat/vote share. Yes, Labour could have ran with policies and a campaign that would have pushed their own vote count higher than it was, but it would likely have been in places where they either would have won anyway or at the Lib Dems/Green's expense.

In this particular seat, it's cost Labour a seat. Overall the thinking that's led to that result has also produced about as big a landslide as anybody could reasonably hope for.

 

[HeaviestTed]

f*** it

Not slept and going to the cricket tonight


Might need the weather to be really bad

Luckily England always delivers bad weather

 

[kevo]

It's amazing how relatively far out the polls were. All those millions of pounds to conduct surveys and construct their sophisticated methodologies...

The last polls I saw had Labour on 40 or 39% and Reform on 17%. Yet, Labour are on 34% and Reform on 14%. I know the margin of difference isn't huge, but you'd expect them to be more accurate really.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ultimately why an even bigger labour landslide won't be achieved, you can't just accuse people of being Anti-Semites at every corner. I feel like this conversation is just going to be a rant where any other opinion isn't going to be accepted at all so I'll stop, a bit of nuance wouldn't go a miss, but when it comes to labour factional politics it brings out the worst of both sides. Another incredibly shite Tory MP kept their seat because two people on the left couldn't agree and got obssessed with factional politics, like I said it wouldn't go a miss to not just use inflammatory language (from both sides).

OK. I simply don't feel the need to denigrate a landslide over the loss of two seats.

(You just can accuse people of antisemitism 'at every corner' if it exists 'at every corner'. Luckily that is all now history at most corners.)

Which two people on the left couldn't agree and got obsessed by factional politics, by the way? No idea how you came to that conclusion, or even what you mean. I am guessing that you have got somewhat worked up over this issue and are letting anger get in the way of coherence. Rather like me during the run up to Brexit I suspect we share 95% of the same values so I'm happy to let this 5% go.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I struggle to get a handle on it tbh. Coming from leafy Sussex I didn't experience the industrial past of just about everywhere in this area, even the little villages, so the sense of community is a surprise (a nice one). There is a definite feeling that people want change but to what I do not know - Ben Houchen winning again is a good example, as some of his dealings are just a tad shady! Redcar voting Lib Dem in 2010 is another as they had got nothing from Labour and when that didn't work, voting Conservative! I just have a feeling that the Reform vote was a protest and it will only get bigger if things do not change in the short term.

Oh it's definitely largely a protest.

It's like how the same areas that would vote Lib Dem in elections often ended up voting for Brexit.

 

[jackalbion]

Well unfortunately some people can do, and they're frequently people from the right with an agenda. And I'm very definitely not talking about Harry Wilson's Tackle.

It's like the argument about Labour's seat/vote share. Yes, Labour could have ran with policies and a campaign that would have pushed their own vote count higher than it was, but it would likely have been in places where they either would have won anyway or at the Lib Dems/Green's expense.

In this particular seat, it's cost Labour a seat. Overall the thinking that's led to that result has also produced about as big a landslide as anybody could reasonably hope for.

Just a bit tired of being told x person y person is an anti Semite, when I come from a Jewish background, I know what anti Semitism is, I agree that Labour has had a good landslide, but like I said everyone involved in this was stupid, she shouldn't have been deselected the eve of the deadline, but also she should have stood aside, another fundamentally stupid decision, as Labour would have and should have won easily. Once again nuance goes out the window and its something to do with Jeremy Corbyn again.

 

[BadFish]

Just noticed how Labour won a landslide majority with less votes than the last election.

So the first lie you here will be how the people have spoken. When the people spoke to 66% voted for other parties.

Starmer is in Downing Street by default.

If all else fails, blame the system eh?

Labour won under the rules of the current system, one can only play by the rules provided and they won by them.

 

[jackalbion]

OK. I simply don't feel the need to denigrate a landslide over the loss of two seats.

(You just can accuse people of antisemitism 'at every corner' if it exists 'at every corner'. Luckily that is all now history at most corners.)

Which two people on the left couldn't agree and got obsessed by factional politics, by the way? No idea how you came to that conclusion, or even what you mean. I am guessing that you have got somewhat worked up over this issue and are letting anger get in the way of coherence. Rather like me during the run up to Brexit I suspect we share 95% of the same values so I'm happy to let this 5% go.

Thanks for the history of anti semitism really enlightening. You are just coming across as a patronising and rude to be honest, there is a possibility in life that you may not be 100% correct.

 

[trueblue]

How does something become an "interest story" though? Who decided that the Reform Party doing well in this election was more "interesting" than the Greens doing equally well?

It's interesting purely because it has more relevance to the result. Reform split the natural Tory vote and opened the door to Labour, so their influence (sadly, in my opinion) far outweighed the number of seats they gained. There are lots of constituencies where, somehow, the Tories still would have scraped a win if there was no Reform candidate attracting the hard right vote. It's good to see the Greens do well but it doesn't have the same national importance.

Edit: Just to be clear, "sadly" in the sense that it's a shame Reform have a growing influence, not that they should have got more seats!

 

[Audax]

Weirdly, I believe Sir Kier will be a far, far better PM than he was Leader of the Opposition. I think he is a thoroughly decent and principled bloke, who is genuinely in politics for reasons of public service. The serious business of being PM will suit him far better than being LoHMO and I wish him well.

Yep, agreed. I've said it previously a few times over the last couple of years. Starmer will be a better PM than Oppo leader. Which is one the best things about how this all played out. Under normal circumstances, he wouldn't've won. If this was 2010, we'd still be looking at a Labour loss IMHO. But it's not. He's the perfect PM to drag us out of the current mess IMO ... the big worry being that he'll need more than 5 years to get it done, and may not get the second term if the rebuild & recovery is slow.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

It's interesting purely because it has more relevance to the result. Reform split the natural Tory vote and opened the door to Labour, so their influence (sadly, in my opinion) far outweighed the number of seats they gained. There are lots of constituencies where, somehow, the Tories still would have scraped a win if there was no Reform candidate attracting the hard right vote. It's good to see the Greens do well but it doesn't have the same national importance.

Yes the % share of the vote has little to do with the number of seats

 

[Brovion]

Compared to the leaving speeches of Johnson and Truss, that was a very, very good speech indeed. Almost bereft of bitterness. Well done Rishi. Probably his best moment as PM.

It was. Unlike Truss who is still blaming everything else and everyone else.

Maybe I'm swayed by his humility on resigning, and/or maybe I'm full of joy/magnanimity after our colossal victory, but when the dust from this period finally settles perhaps history will be a slightly kinder judge of Sunak and Hunt than we are. After all, when you think of his two predecessors, the lying untrustworthy buffoon and the almost criminally incompetent and economically illiterate Truss, they did a reasonable and grown-up job in steadying the ship.

(I appreciate that as Johnson's Chancellor Sunak was at least partially responsible for all the damage, but in my spirit of magnanimity I'm gonna gloss over that).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He lost my vote over Gaza after some comments he made after the start of the conflict. It caused me to realise how, like other politicians, he'll do what he can to be elected and appease the media. I think his delight at the endorsement of Rupert Murdoch was the final evidence.

I remember when I was a teenager. I set myself incredibly high standards over what I saw as an ideal relationship with a female. Someone much older that I knew said to me "It's no good saving yourself for Snow White. Anyway the seven dwarves have already 'had' her".

If you imagine that the person you gave your vote to (Liberal? Green?) would deliver all and only your heart's desires, were they ever to be part of a government (they won't), then you have standards so high you are destined to a lifetime of disappointment. Politics is the art of the possible.

You are quite wrong, incidentally, to infer Starmer will say and do anything to get elected. That, frankly, is quite evidently nonsense. The massive unpopularity of his failure to back Hamas by instantly condemning Israel's response to it is one good example. I am being only half facetious here. Why did he not go out of his way to fish for your support if he is politically venal? Do you think he's a fool as well as politically venal? And do you still think that anything a UK leader of the opposition might say about Israel would have the slightest effect on Israel's action?

(seem weird arguing with you - someone else I imagine I share 95% of imperatives).