[Misc] The NHS

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is why I am saying take it out of politicians hands

This. I really struggle to understand why politicians need to be involved,

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The whole thing needs a rethink and needs properly costing and then funding. This latter point will mean higher NI though. In fact Id actually have a separate health NI payment.

I'd pay (cannot really afford it but...) to opt out of the NHS.

 

[Triggaaar]

Carillion was never in the public sector, totally wrong argument.

British Rail?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

British Rail?

Despite the past couple of years, the trains are a much better option than they were 30 years ago.

 

[Triggaaar]

Who decides on budgets and inventions in private businesses? I don't get your argument.

Oh maybe I've completely misunderstood your point. In private businesses the budget is decided by the business, based on the revenue from the customers - I thought you'd still use our tax to pay for the health, but you're saying stop using our tax and charge the patient (or their insurance). Fair enough. I don't want a system like the US where the poor get no treatment and are left to die.

 

[AmexRuislip]

If you privatise the NHS, you'll get all insundrie charging what they bloody like.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Oh maybe I've completely misunderstood your point. In private businesses the budget is decided by the business, based on the revenue from the customers - I thought you'd still use our tax to pay for the health, but you're saying stop using our tax and charge the patient (or their insurance). Fair enough. I don't want a system like the US where the poor get no treatment and are left to die.

No mate, I didn't, I said still pay our NHS. That gives a budget, the company then knows what they have to play with. The NHS is still a company, even if in public hands, it still has a budget, it still knows what it has to play with. Unfortunately, Govt. have no clue how to run a business, business knows how to run a business.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

If you privatise the NHS, you'll get all insundrie charging what they bloody like.

No, you give them guidelines on how to run it. If we still pay in, we still have a voice. Govt. sets their tasks and they run by it.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Are you talking about the government contracting out the services but still keeping them free or going down a US model where everyone pays for health insurance and hospitals are largely owned and operated by private businesses? The later is the only model where you would remove health from politicians but I can't see the majority of the people in the UK being willing to pay for private health insurance. In the case of the former we already currently do contract out a lot of services to private companies and in my experience these companies tend to do very well at the expense of taxpayers, for example in the case of PFI.

 

[vegster]

Too difficult to simplify two choices. It is apolitical atm rather than political anyway. As for privatisation, no one company could take it all on and some areas of its operation would be difficult to privatise as they are not moneymaking areas.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Are you talking about the government contracting out the services but still keeping them free or going down a US model where everyone pays for health insurance and hospitals are largely owned and operated by private businesses? The later is the only model where you would remove health from politicians but I can't see the majority of the people in the UK being willing to pay for private health insurance. In the case of the former we already currently do contract out a lot of services to private companies and in my experience these companies tend to do very well at the expense of taxpayers, for example in the case of PFI.

No I really did say we still pay NHI, which gives us all a stake in the business.

 

[AmexRuislip]

No, you give them guidelines on how to run it. If we still pay in, we still have a voice. Govt. sets their tasks and they run by it.

Can't see it being as simple as that, always hidden extras!

 

[GT49er]

My girlfriend is an admin in the NHS, so I have a teeny bit of inside knowledge. I worked for the MoJ for four years so I know the machinations of the civil service. It is nothing about being a vital job and all about keeping employment figures up. This is why I am saying take it out of politicians hands, unemployment may go up, but the NHS at frontline would gain from it.

I had several year's first hand, not second hand, experience of NHS admin - plus seven years in Local Government, and twenty odd years in the Civil Service, so I know what I'm talking about too. There are vital jobs in all those sectors, and a lot that aren't needed. Even less would be needed if whole departments weren't there to commission services from profit making firms and manage all the contracting out pallaver.
Anyway, politicians don't run the NHS. They appoint the people who do - exactly as they would have to if appointing private firms to do the job. Of course, a lot of the NHS budget then goes to the shareholders of the companies contracted to deliver services, but hey! - wealth trickles down, doesn't it..........




...............oh.........

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Can't see it being as simple as that, always hidden extras!

Totally not that easy, but I stick with business running business, politicians are a boil on our arses.

 

[Triggaaar]

Who decides on budgets and inventions in private businesses? I don't get your argument.

No mate, I didn't, I said still pay our NHS. That gives a budget

No it doesn't, the politicians would argue about how much that budget is - the right wing would try and keep it down, while the left would say we should increase it so that we get a better service. No amount of money will be enough to give everyone the latest drugs and perfect care for every patient, and with our limited resources politicians would continue to argue about how much to pay, and every few years the amount we pay would go up and down depending on the political landscape. That is nothing like the way a normal private business gets its budget.

And when our politicians hand over the billions, they'd tell the privatised service what they expect in return. Those expectations would be different for different governments, so the health service would still be a political football.

 

[vegster]

Despite the past couple of years, the trains are a much better option than they were 30 years ago.

Depends on how you view progress, if you like overcrowded dirty trains running late between bleak unmanned stations with expensive tickets and still subsidised by the taxpayer you are obviously happy with that.

 

[Half Time Pies]

No I really did say we still pay NHI, which gives us all a stake in the business.

So I take it you are talking about contracting out the whole NHS to a single company or the whole NHS becoming a shareholder company? No single company would be able to take that on as a whole and even if they could it would never work, imagine we find ourselves in a situation like with southern rail where the services are failing and staff are permanently out on strike, this situation with a rail franchise causes us enough problems but it would be a complete disaster if it was impacting on our health.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I had several year's first hand, not second hand, experience of NHS admin - plus seven years in Local Government, and twenty odd years in the Civil Service, so I know what I'm talking about too. There are vital jobs in all those sectors, and a lot that aren't needed. Even less would be needed if whole departments weren't there to commission services from profit making firms and manage all the contracting out pallaver.
Anyway, politicians don't run the NHS. They appoint the people who do - exactly as they would have to if appointing private firms to do the job. Of course, a lot of the NHS budget then goes to the shareholders of the companies contracted to deliver services, but hey! - wealth trickles down, doesn't it..........




...............oh.........

I absolutely know where you're coming from, and yes, they appoint people to run the NHS. However, politicians being politicians do not, ever, appoint the right people to do a job. Look at the NHS now, it is at an all time low and offering less and less emergency services. People are dying because an ambulance/medic doesn't turn up. It is happening more and more. We are a 40s service in 2018. It needs business to run it, not politician appointments. It sucks to much of jobs for the boys.

 

[portslade seagull]

However much money gets thrown at the NHS it will never be enough.

 

[PeterOut]

If you don't want to use the NHS as it is, then don't - you always have a choice, just go private for all your healthcare needs.
In the meantime, feck off and leave my NHS alone.