[Politics] The NHS and funding

[Wrong-Direction]

I think people keep forgetting there's plenty of money floating about for great services for all. The corrupt elite keep it all to themselves though.

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[beorhthelm]

Now please explain why there isn’t just one medical IT system with all your records on it that you can access on an app or a website. Now that would be great progress.

concerns on security and privacy, cost to build and manage it. really it doesnt need to be one system, a framework for integration and data sharing would serve most purposes, thats not grand enough to make it to policy makers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I recently attended A&E at Worthing Hospital, the short summary was that I sliced the top of my thumb off with a pair of secateurs. I am an idiot.

Anyway, the care I received was fantastic. Yes I had to wait but there were a lot of people with a more pressing need than mine.

However I came away after spending a good deal of time with a nurse all sorted, cleaned up and hopefully the thumb will be okay. I had no complaints whatsoever.

But it made me think, should I have paid for my treatment? Me being there was entirely my own fault and a quick glance round the very packed A&E department suggested at least half the people were there due to various forms of self inflicted pain, either through drugs or alcohol or gardening incidents like mine.

Had they said, well look this is your own fault, you are a nob end, this will cost you £100, I would have paid. Yes I pay my taxes, but I earn well and could afford it. Instead I have lobbed this amount into the hospital charity fund, but it made me think what would be wrong with charging a nominal sum for visits like this? We are so precious about our free NHS but the reality is there is a lot of self inflicted stuff going into the system through people not looking after themselves, being a clumsy idiot like me etc.

Should we have to pay if it's our fault? Should we start charging £10 for a doctors appointment. If it meant I could see mine on the day I wanted I'd pay for that. I'm sure others would as well.

I expect this thread will be bombarded with resistance but I genuinely think there is a large amount of people who could and would pay for such a treatment, especially if it improved the NHS as a result. Clearly I would not expect anyone on benefits to pay these amounts.

I prefer the “where can I watch the game in blah blah” look-at-me threads. This is crass.

 

[drew]

All great points well made in a balanced fashion. I shall stand down my argument on this. As said in the original post I am an idiot.

Now please explain why there isn’t just one medical IT system with all your records on it that you can access on an app or a website. Now that would be great progress.

They tried and failed, abandoned in 2013 by the Tory government!!!

 

[Giraffe]

concerns on security and privacy, cost to build and manage it. really it doesnt need to be one system, a framework for integration and data sharing would serve most purposes, thats not grand enough to make it to policy makers.

I've heard this argument before, but it doesn't make any sense. The records exist anyway, it's just they are on different systems, none of which I can access online. Everything else is online so why can't this be? I'm sure people die because their records are not easily accessed and doctors don't know what drugs they are on?

 

[Justice]

Can you imagine the rage in A&E if we all paid we are happy to wait for hours because we don’t pay directly on the day. If we did tempers would definitely start boiling over.

 

[blue-shifted]

OP

Well done for making a donation, but if you feel you have enough money to pay for an improvement in the NHS and other public services, you'll very soon have the opportunity to cast your vote for a party which is offering better funded public services paid for through higher taxation ... (ok so they might not advertise the last part of this too much)

 

[MattBackHome]

I prefer the “where can I watch the game in blah blah” look-at-me threads. This is crass.

Any tips on hospitals in the Maldives?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Any tips on hospitals in the Maldives?

That made me chuckle!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can you imagine the rage in A&E if we all paid we are happy to wait for hours because we don’t pay directly on the day. If we did tempers would definitely start boiling over.

Maybe hospitals could introduce surge charging?

 

[beorhthelm]

I've heard this argument before, but it doesn't make any sense. The records exist anyway, it's just they are on different systems, none of which I can access online. Everything else is online so why can't this be? I'm sure people die because their records are not easily accessed and doctors don't know what drugs they are on?

doesnt have to make sense to be the reason. NHS IT systems are horribly fragmented, along way from being able to offer access online, if they are even fully digitised (its not just UK actually, IT system in healthcare are sub par). Its different elsewhere, business can make the decision to do so themselves, not behold to one monolithic risk averse authority.

 

[MattBackHome]

I'm actually sympathetic to the original idea. I just reckon it should be done via progressive taxation and not at the point of service.

I also reckon they could probably do a good line in ringfenced gifts via wills etc.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I prefer the “where can I watch the game in blah blah” look-at-me threads. This is crass.

It's a bit like that vegan thing:

Q. How do you tell if someone's a vegan?
A. They'll tell you about it soon enough

Pretty sure OP felt the absolute need to let everyone know they'd put £100 quid in the NHS kitty - if that even actually happened - so they got maximum bang for their buck. Else nobody would ever know eh? Or appreciate the virtue signalling.

 

[Machiavelli]

Charging will just increase bureaucracy and therefore also the cost of deliverying the service , something that I thought Tories and free marketeers want to reduce. The NHS is the most efficient provider of healthcare in the world, but this is something we’re not supposed to know.

 

[Peteinblack]

Once the NHS starts charging even a nominal amount for an appointment or treatment, the amount will steadily increase, and eventually, some people will be unable to afford to pay.

The claim that 'the NHS is no longer affordable' is politically-motivated; it's the claim advanced by those who want to dismantle it or privatise it completely. The people who claim 'the NHS is no longer affordable' are invariably the people who are happy to give £ billions given away in tax cuts for those on high salaries, and turn a blind eye to the £ billions lost through tax evasion.

Instead of saying "we can't afford the NHS anymore", we should be saying "we can't afford £ multi-billion tax give-aways and tax fraud anymore."

However, I do think there is a problem with people who end up in hospital as a result of their own stupidity or lifestyle. Doctors already refuse to operate on some people until they quit excessive drinking, give up smoking, or lose weight, and I think that is quite reasonable.

I also think it would be reasonable not to treat the pissed-up idiots who clutter A&E on Friday & Saturday nights.

 

[highflyer]

My violent instinct was to announce the thread as a party political broadcast for the new Tory right. However, you explain with great clarity a proper reasoning. Good points well made.

It's the new, kinder politics

Worth a try.

And also it was an interesting enough question to be worth engaging with. Universal vs means testing is an important debate.

I am in favour of Universal Basic Income, but while there is an instinctive feeling that health care should be free and available to all, regardless of circumstances, we don't seem to think the same of basic income. And I am not sure why (beyond a deep rooted adherence to the protestent work ethic, but if that is so strong why are we seemingly happy for most wealth to be accumulated on the basis of asset ownership rather than work).

 

[blue-shifted]

I also think it would be reasonable not to treat the pissed-up idiots who clutter A&E on Friday & Saturday nights.

A good chunk of those will be people who just went for a night out and got assaulted for no reason*. That's happened to me

*well ok I could have possibly done more to defuse the situation but it was mostly not my fault

 

[Peteinblack]

Charging will just increase bureaucracy and therefore also the cost of deliverying the service , something that I thought Tories and free marketeers want to reduce. The NHS is the most efficient provider of healthcare in the world, but this is something we’re not supposed to know.

Good point - the 'internal market', introduced in the early 1990s, has led to a massive increase in accountants and 'business managers' in the NHS (and other public services). Many hospitals (and universities) are now top-heavy with bureaucrats trying to manage and monitor the system, and keep tabs on the cash flows and 'cost centres' inside each institution. The amount of paperwork, documentation, and 'audit trails' this has generated is unbelievable.

 

[Peteinblack]

A good chunk of those will be people who just went for a night out and got assaulted for no reason*. That's happened to me

*well ok I could have possibly done more to defuse the situation but it was mostly not my fault

I'm not referring to people who get assaulted, but the people who are taken in to a A&E because they got paralytic, and then proceed to piss or vomit over the ward or the medical staff.

 

[jackanada]

I'm not referring to people who get assaulted, but the people who are taken in to a A&E because they got paralytic, and then proceed to piss or vomit over the ward or the medical staff.

Though all the duty they've paid on drink and fags tops up the Exchequer so they are contributing more.